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While I would prefer that our society didn't have to depend on fossil fuels, without them our advanced society would not be possible. Fossil fuels are bad but t

by 6d6b73 10y ago

While I would prefer that our society didn't have to depend on fossil fuels, without them our advanced society would not be possible. Fossil fuels are bad but they were/are necessary. All we need to do know is to just recognize that they will not be needed in the future, and keep investing into renewables.

dmix 10y ago
> All we need to do know is to just recognize that they will not be needed in the future, and keep investing into renewables. They may soon not be needed in western society - which can afford the capital investments into renewable tech and the subsidies to push rates to competitive markets rates. But all of those oil wells and mines still exist. They will just find a market in developing countries such as Asia and Africa. Africa is going to be where the greatest amount of population growth will be for the next few decades. Combine that will a flood of cheap oil and it will likely partially offset the benefits of renewable energy in the short term. Eventually renewable tech will be so cheap that it will no longer make economic sense to use oil/coal but I don't think that will happen globally as fast as people hope.
- 6d6b73 10y ago
  >But all of those oil wells and mines still exist. They will just find a market in developing countries such as Asia and Africa. I have to disagree. Consider this - when countries in central europe, after the fall of Berlin Wall, began to invest into IT and Communication infrastructure they usually invested into the new technology, simply because that made more economic sense. They did not have to go through analog->digital, instead they jumped right into the newest tech. Developing countries in Africa and Asia will be able to skip right into renewable and save money by not having to build new power lines, new power plants, transfer stations etc. Renewables will grow much faster than most people anticipate, and since the demand for fossil fuels will drop, their price will grow, which in turn will turn renewable into even better investment.
  - dmix 10y ago
    True, that might be the case as power plants and infrastructure are expensive. But there's also existing infrastructure and there is a lot of industry already in place supporting fossil fuels, such as equipment makers, manufacturers, and fuel suppliers. These operations won't necessarily just go out of business or just become renewable energy firms, they will likely drop prices and sell to other developing markets. Renewable energy is largely defined by high upfront capital costs but long term savings (solar panels, wind turbines). This is the primary barrier that I see in poorer countries. The cost of fossil fuels is more distributed over time as you buy cheap engines and pay more over time for the fuel. Again this is the short term side effects. Eventually it will shift to green tech as there will also be social pressures, not just economic ones. It will also be a positive benefit as prices drop and helps develop industry - even if their are climate costs.

by 6d6b73 10y ago

dmix 10y ago

> All we need to do know is to just recognize that they will not be needed in the future, and keep investing into renewables. They may soon not be needed in western society - which can afford the capital investments into renewable tech and the subsidies to push rates to competitive markets rates. But all of those oil wells and mines still exist. They will just find a market in developing countries such as Asia and Africa. Africa is going to be where the greatest amount of population growth will be for the next few decades. Combine that will a flood of cheap oil and it will likely partially offset the benefits of renewable energy in the short term. Eventually renewable tech will be so cheap that it will no longer make economic sense to use oil/coal but I don't think that will happen globally as fast as people hope.

6d6b73 10y ago
>But all of those oil wells and mines still exist. They will just find a market in developing countries such as Asia and Africa. I have to disagree. Consider this - when countries in central europe, after the fall of Berlin Wall, began to invest into IT and Communication infrastructure they usually invested into the new technology, simply because that made more economic sense. They did not have to go through analog->digital, instead they jumped right into the newest tech. Developing countries in Africa and Asia will be able to skip right into renewable and save money by not having to build new power lines, new power plants, transfer stations etc. Renewables will grow much faster than most people anticipate, and since the demand for fossil fuels will drop, their price will grow, which in turn will turn renewable into even better investment.
- dmix 10y ago
  True, that might be the case as power plants and infrastructure are expensive. But there's also existing infrastructure and there is a lot of industry already in place supporting fossil fuels, such as equipment makers, manufacturers, and fuel suppliers. These operations won't necessarily just go out of business or just become renewable energy firms, they will likely drop prices and sell to other developing markets. Renewable energy is largely defined by high upfront capital costs but long term savings (solar panels, wind turbines). This is the primary barrier that I see in poorer countries. The cost of fossil fuels is more distributed over time as you buy cheap engines and pay more over time for the fuel. Again this is the short term side effects. Eventually it will shift to green tech as there will also be social pressures, not just economic ones. It will also be a positive benefit as prices drop and helps develop industry - even if their are climate costs.