5 ms·

Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

4 points by PikelEmi 10y ago

tradersam 10y ago
> But choosing .NET is a choice, and whenever anybody does it, I can’t help but ask “why?” > Programming with .NET is like cooking in a McDonalds kitchen. Has the author ever even used .NET? Maybe for their specific product it isn't useful, but just look at (for one example) all the games on the Xbox 360, a platform that dominated. Also, at least in my company .NET is huge internally. Fortune 500's prefer stability, and startups don't (as much), but that doesn't mean the need isn't there.
- philliphaydon 10y ago
  Startup's seem to have always argued about price and vendor lock in. This isn't really an issue anymore... You can code on Windows, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code, Visual Studio Community) and deploy to Linux. Total cost: $0. You can code on Ubuntu, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code) and deploy to Linux. Total cost: $0. And even then, you don't need to use VSCode, you can use Atom or Sublime. And jetbrains is working on Project Rider. The 'vendor lockin' is now no more locked in than using Ruby or Go or any other language.
  - fiedzia 10y ago
    > Startup's seem to have always argued about price and vendor lock in. This is not an argument here. > You can code on Windows, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code, Visual Studio Community) and deploy to Linux. You can't. You won't have access to Linux ecosystem and mindshare if you do that You limit yourself to extremely tiny subset of things you can do on both systems. It makes no sense. > The 'vendor lockin' is now no more locked in than using Ruby or Go or any other language. Roby or Go has no problem whatsoever with using full power of Linux, .Net does. Ruby and Go communities on Linux are several orders of magnitude larger then amount of people using .Net there. There is plenty of Ruby/Go developers who know how to dive into Ruby or system internals if they need to, this is not common in .Net world.
    - dozzie 10y ago
      >> You can code on Windows, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code, Visual Studio Community) and deploy to Linux. > You can't. You won't have access to Linux ecosystem and mindshare if you do that Though it's no longer vendor lock-in per se, even if Microsoft closes .NET (Core) back or do something else equally nasty, since it was published as open source at least once and somebody will just fork it (see what happened to MySQL). Though .NET on Linux indeed doesn't seem to be as compelling to the community of Linux-first developers. It just has tough competitors that have been present here since forever.
    - philliphaydon 10y ago
      Have you actually tried .NET Core? It's really not hard to create a ASP.NET Core website and host it in nginx.
      - fiedzia 10y ago
        I am not arguing that it is. I am arguing that it hard to make full use of it. An example: I googled: python sendfile: first three links point you to python modules implementing it ruby sendfile: same thing, first links point you to some middleware that uses that golang sendfile: first link points to stdlib implementing sendfile asp.net core sendfile, .net sendfile: I went through all links in the first page, still have no clue if it can be used. You can use .net on Linux. But you are restricted by Windows limitations, and you miss on the mindshare.
        philliphaydon 10y ago
        So send file streams the file from disk out to the browser? FileStreamResult???
        fiedzia 10y ago
        You don't understand what I am talking about, neither do FileStreamResult authors (I've looked at mono and ms implementations) and that's the problem I am talking about. Linux users either know what sendfile syscall is and how to use it or use libraries whose authors know.
- davelnewton 10y ago
  That's it's huge internally at a Fortune 500 is more or less what the article rails against, no? It's the same reason Java-the-language on a resume, at least if it's the primary environment, also makes me read closer so I can learn if they're a lowest-common-denominator developer, or just happened to also know Java. The article doesn't say anything about there not being a need for such environments, and a Fortune 500 (or even 2000) company may be just that place.
mjlangiii 10y ago
can we put the date in the title?

4 points by PikelEmi 10y ago

> But choosing .NET is a choice, and whenever anybody does it, I can’t help but ask “why?” > Programming with .NET is like cooking in a McDonalds kitchen. Has the author ever even used .NET? Maybe for their specific product it isn't useful, but just look at (for one example) all the games on the Xbox 360, a platform that dominated. Also, at least in my company .NET is huge internally. Fortune 500's prefer stability, and startups don't (as much), but that doesn't mean the need isn't there.

philliphaydon 10y ago
Startup's seem to have always argued about price and vendor lock in. This isn't really an issue anymore... You can code on Windows, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code, Visual Studio Community) and deploy to Linux. Total cost: $0. You can code on Ubuntu, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code) and deploy to Linux. Total cost: $0. And even then, you don't need to use VSCode, you can use Atom or Sublime. And jetbrains is working on Project Rider. The 'vendor lockin' is now no more locked in than using Ruby or Go or any other language.
- fiedzia 10y ago
  > Startup's seem to have always argued about price and vendor lock in. This is not an argument here. > You can code on Windows, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code, Visual Studio Community) and deploy to Linux. You can't. You won't have access to Linux ecosystem and mindshare if you do that You limit yourself to extremely tiny subset of things you can do on both systems. It makes no sense. > The 'vendor lockin' is now no more locked in than using Ruby or Go or any other language. Roby or Go has no problem whatsoever with using full power of Linux, .Net does. Ruby and Go communities on Linux are several orders of magnitude larger then amount of people using .Net there. There is plenty of Ruby/Go developers who know how to dive into Ruby or system internals if they need to, this is not common in .Net world.
  - dozzie 10y ago
    >> You can code on Windows, with a free IDE (Visual Studio Code, Visual Studio Community) and deploy to Linux. > You can't. You won't have access to Linux ecosystem and mindshare if you do that Though it's no longer vendor lock-in per se, even if Microsoft closes .NET (Core) back or do something else equally nasty, since it was published as open source at least once and somebody will just fork it (see what happened to MySQL). Though .NET on Linux indeed doesn't seem to be as compelling to the community of Linux-first developers. It just has tough competitors that have been present here since forever.
  - philliphaydon 10y ago
    Have you actually tried .NET Core? It's really not hard to create a ASP.NET Core website and host it in nginx.
    - fiedzia 10y ago
      I am not arguing that it is. I am arguing that it hard to make full use of it. An example: I googled: python sendfile: first three links point you to python modules implementing it ruby sendfile: same thing, first links point you to some middleware that uses that golang sendfile: first link points to stdlib implementing sendfile asp.net core sendfile, .net sendfile: I went through all links in the first page, still have no clue if it can be used. You can use .net on Linux. But you are restricted by Windows limitations, and you miss on the mindshare.
      - philliphaydon 10y ago
        So send file streams the file from disk out to the browser? FileStreamResult???
        fiedzia 10y ago
        You don't understand what I am talking about, neither do FileStreamResult authors (I've looked at mono and ms implementations) and that's the problem I am talking about. Linux users either know what sendfile syscall is and how to use it or use libraries whose authors know.
davelnewton 10y ago
That's it's huge internally at a Fortune 500 is more or less what the article rails against, no? It's the same reason Java-the-language on a resume, at least if it's the primary environment, also makes me read closer so I can learn if they're a lowest-common-denominator developer, or just happened to also know Java. The article doesn't say anything about there not being a need for such environments, and a Fortune 500 (or even 2000) company may be just that place.

mjlangiii 10y ago

can we put the date in the title?