9 ms·

Users get message about sexual harassment scandal when trying to delete Uber

65 points by rejschaap 10y ago

jelliclesfarm 10y ago
Ugh.. I no longer believe in the hope that sexism against women (or queer folks) will disappear..at least not in my lifetime. Imagine..all the bandwidth wasted on noise like this.. "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it." - The Doctor, The Unearthly Child.
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- leereeves 10y ago
  Let's not restrict our concern to only "sexism against women (or queer folks)". It happens to men too, and men get far less support.
  - jlebrech 10y ago
    in certain fields men just have a bigger "in group"
    - leereeves 10y ago
      That's true, certainly in engineering, which is the main concern of Hacker News. In other fields women are more powerful (than in engineering). I was personally harassed twice by female doctors. Never reported it because honestly, what's the point?
  - sidlls 10y ago
    Harassment of men in sexual ways is less reported or taken less seriously, in part, because the culture of sexism against women reinforces that male victims of the practice are somehow lesser. Also, plenty of sex-stereotyping that rises to the level of an "ism" is generally positive for men ("big strong man help me move this <heavy object>" or "big virile man you have a beautiful wife"--a doubly sexist trope--and so on). So while I agree we shouldn't reserve concern only for women, we must also not present the issue as though it is somehow equivalent or equally applied. The fact is that sexism against women is far and away the majority case. We shouldn't choose to address one concern over the other if they were equivalent, but in this case focusing efforts on combating sexism against women will also work to reduce sexism against men naturally. So it's a win-win to focus on and prioritize combating sexism against women.
    - leereeves 10y ago
      Honestly we have no idea how widespread the problem is for men. Most men who are victims of sexual harassment, domestic violence, and other forms of sexism don't speak out.
- jlebrech 10y ago
  equality IS here, now it's when someone that isn't in the "in group" tries to get ahead it's different.
tradersam 10y ago
They must be really bleeding users.
ghshephard 10y ago
As someone who really relies on Uber for transportation in all the countries I travel to (no need to speak the local language) - I'm finally starting to appreciated the conflict associated with trying to be supportive of morally upstanding leaders versus desiring to deserve your fundamental needs. Ironically, the Uber fiasco has now made me substantially more empathic to the single issue voters (Evangelicals, Right to Lifers, NRA Members, etc...) who voted for Trump regardless of his perceived faults.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jeromegv 10y ago
  I've had good success with Grab in Vietnam and Philippines
  - philliphaydon 10y ago
    I don't even bother with Uber in Singapore because Grab is such a better service. And cheaper.
    - phlo 10y ago
      Thirded. On a recent trip to Bangkok, we'd usually have an easier time finding a Grab car than an Uber. In both cases, the experience was positive, while Uber drivers seemed to have slightly newer cars, at a slightly higher price.
    - ghshephard 10y ago
      ... And of course they speak English in Singapore. And the Taxis are awesome unless you are trying to find one during rush hour/shift change.
  - passiveincomelg 10y ago
    Same here; Grab worked fine in Kuala Lumpur (back then MyTeksi), with the added benefit of requiring the driver to use the meter. It worked ok in a very touristic part of Thailand (Patong & Phuket City), with a lot of scammers (asking 700 THB for a ride that should be around 300).
tnones 10y ago
That's a really oppressive patriarchy we live in, when a single blog post with no evidence and only hearsay is enough to spike a massive protest and boycott...
- tradersam 10y ago
  From my understanding, Susan is well respected within the SV community, and obviously from Uber's response she struck a nerve. I understand what you're getting at, but I think you're ignoring a lot of context.
  - lubesGordi 10y ago
    Maybe he is ignoring context, but I wouldn't assume that everyone who is deleting the app has it. His/her point stands.
    - jonathankoren 10y ago
      What was his point?
      - padraic7a 10y ago
        > tnones :That's a really oppressive patriarchy we live in, when a single blog post with no evidence and only hearsay is enough to spike a massive protest and boycott... > jonathankoren : What was his point? It's an insinuation that the patriarchy doesn't exist, or is toothless based on the fact that one woman's story sparked a protest against Uber. Which is of course a stupid point. One swallow doesn't make a summer, one exception doesn't disprove a rule and of course any complex system can have exceptions, contra tendencies and still have a dominant character. No one said that patriarchy works like a totalitarian state, crushing anything and anyone which doesn't adhere to a strict set of rules.
        jonathankoren 10y ago
        I don't ask the question, because I don't know the answer. I ask the question because I want them to say it.
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perryh2 10y ago
I wish Lyft expanded into other countries. I'm visiting Mexico and Uber seems to be the best way for foreigners to get around. Taxis there are known to overcharge, just like the taxis anywhere else.
- cr1895 10y ago
  Agreed. Taxis in the Netherlands are often overpriced, outright scams[1], aggressive[2], have curiously non-functioning card payment despite policy, etc. Uber is available, but nothing else. I'd gladly switch to an alternative for a number of reasons. [1] http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/09/taxi-driver-charges-tourists-e485-for-schiphol-to-amsterdam-hotel-trip/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/09/taxi-driver-ch... [2] http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/02/judges-uphold-schiphol-taxi-tout-ban-licenced-cabs-only-allowed/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/02/judges-uphold-...
  - Freak_NL 10y ago
    To be fair, it is mostly just the taxis in Amsterdam that are notoriously bad — precisely because there are so many tourists. These taxi drivers would rather serve tourists with trips to and from the airport exclusively (it pays rather well, and you can easily scam the type of tourist that limits their visit to our country to just Amsterdam). Taxis in most cities here are actually okay on the whole.
    - cr1895 10y ago
      I've still encountered the "oh we'll have to go to an ATM instead" in the Hague despite explicitly asking the dispatcher if I could pay by card. That was for an expensive trip to Schiphol, for which 4(!) Uber drivers I had requested decided to cancel. It can be that the same drivers will work for Uber (black level) and for taxi companies. The taxi companies that I've encountered in the NL don't have anything comparable to an app where you can hail and pay, so for that reason alone Uber still may provide a better service even though the drivers may be the same.
- gtirloni 10y ago
chinathrow 10y ago
Name droping at its finest... "Eric Holder", "President Obama"... What's next Uber? Deleting Uber kills kittens?
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
On Tuesday I contacted Uber about Fowler's account. (I've supported them in New York City and Albany, albeit informally, and wanted to know if I needed to make the rounds and recant my support.) The response? "Thank you for writing in to Uber Support...for any information related to the U.S. immigration ban, please see our Newsroom post..." Thanks bot. I request again. "I can’t speak to your concerns or questions regarding this issue." Swallow my pride and recant it is...
- manicdee 10y ago
  Isn't it illegal to comment on matters before the court or due to appear before the court?
  - dmoy 10y ago
    It's not illegal, it's just really not beneficial (to the litigant). So generally your lawyers will tell you to shut up, because you might say something that'll torpedo you in court, but it's not illegal.
brudgers 10y ago
Everyone at Uber is hurting Fowler is not at Uber. Nobody at Uber is taking responsibility. No statement from Uber has been explicit that the behaviors are upsetting or that losing an engineer because of company culture as manifested in the workplace was upsetting. The statements have all been about how reading the post made people unhappy (perhaps because the behavior was made public). The loss of company value due to the fallout probably makes people unhappy too. Heck, any bad press will make people unhappy. Uber's response narrative reminds me of a "What's really important here is how hitting you makes me feel bad about myself" bully.

65 points by rejschaap 10y ago

Ugh.. I no longer believe in the hope that sexism against women (or queer folks) will disappear..at least not in my lifetime. Imagine..all the bandwidth wasted on noise like this.. "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it." - The Doctor, The Unearthly Child.

deleted 10y ago
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deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
leereeves 10y ago
Let's not restrict our concern to only "sexism against women (or queer folks)". It happens to men too, and men get far less support.
- jlebrech 10y ago
  in certain fields men just have a bigger "in group"
  - leereeves 10y ago
    That's true, certainly in engineering, which is the main concern of Hacker News. In other fields women are more powerful (than in engineering). I was personally harassed twice by female doctors. Never reported it because honestly, what's the point?
- sidlls 10y ago
  Harassment of men in sexual ways is less reported or taken less seriously, in part, because the culture of sexism against women reinforces that male victims of the practice are somehow lesser. Also, plenty of sex-stereotyping that rises to the level of an "ism" is generally positive for men ("big strong man help me move this <heavy object>" or "big virile man you have a beautiful wife"--a doubly sexist trope--and so on). So while I agree we shouldn't reserve concern only for women, we must also not present the issue as though it is somehow equivalent or equally applied. The fact is that sexism against women is far and away the majority case. We shouldn't choose to address one concern over the other if they were equivalent, but in this case focusing efforts on combating sexism against women will also work to reduce sexism against men naturally. So it's a win-win to focus on and prioritize combating sexism against women.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Honestly we have no idea how widespread the problem is for men. Most men who are victims of sexual harassment, domestic violence, and other forms of sexism don't speak out.
jlebrech 10y ago
equality IS here, now it's when someone that isn't in the "in group" tries to get ahead it's different.

tradersam 10y ago

They must be really bleeding users.

ghshephard 10y ago

As someone who really relies on Uber for transportation in all the countries I travel to (no need to speak the local language) - I'm finally starting to appreciated the conflict associated with trying to be supportive of morally upstanding leaders versus desiring to deserve your fundamental needs. Ironically, the Uber fiasco has now made me substantially more empathic to the single issue voters (Evangelicals, Right to Lifers, NRA Members, etc...) who voted for Trump regardless of his perceived faults.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jeromegv 10y ago
I've had good success with Grab in Vietnam and Philippines
- philliphaydon 10y ago
  I don't even bother with Uber in Singapore because Grab is such a better service. And cheaper.
  - phlo 10y ago
    Thirded. On a recent trip to Bangkok, we'd usually have an easier time finding a Grab car than an Uber. In both cases, the experience was positive, while Uber drivers seemed to have slightly newer cars, at a slightly higher price.
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    ... And of course they speak English in Singapore. And the Taxis are awesome unless you are trying to find one during rush hour/shift change.
- passiveincomelg 10y ago
  Same here; Grab worked fine in Kuala Lumpur (back then MyTeksi), with the added benefit of requiring the driver to use the meter. It worked ok in a very touristic part of Thailand (Patong & Phuket City), with a lot of scammers (asking 700 THB for a ride that should be around 300).

tnones 10y ago

That's a really oppressive patriarchy we live in, when a single blog post with no evidence and only hearsay is enough to spike a massive protest and boycott...

tradersam 10y ago
From my understanding, Susan is well respected within the SV community, and obviously from Uber's response she struck a nerve. I understand what you're getting at, but I think you're ignoring a lot of context.
- lubesGordi 10y ago
  Maybe he is ignoring context, but I wouldn't assume that everyone who is deleting the app has it. His/her point stands.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    What was his point?
    - padraic7a 10y ago
      > tnones :That's a really oppressive patriarchy we live in, when a single blog post with no evidence and only hearsay is enough to spike a massive protest and boycott... > jonathankoren : What was his point? It's an insinuation that the patriarchy doesn't exist, or is toothless based on the fact that one woman's story sparked a protest against Uber. Which is of course a stupid point. One swallow doesn't make a summer, one exception doesn't disprove a rule and of course any complex system can have exceptions, contra tendencies and still have a dominant character. No one said that patriarchy works like a totalitarian state, crushing anything and anyone which doesn't adhere to a strict set of rules.
      - jonathankoren 10y ago
        I don't ask the question, because I don't know the answer. I ask the question because I want them to say it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

perryh2 10y ago

I wish Lyft expanded into other countries. I'm visiting Mexico and Uber seems to be the best way for foreigners to get around. Taxis there are known to overcharge, just like the taxis anywhere else.

cr1895 10y ago
Agreed. Taxis in the Netherlands are often overpriced, outright scams[1], aggressive[2], have curiously non-functioning card payment despite policy, etc. Uber is available, but nothing else. I'd gladly switch to an alternative for a number of reasons. [1] http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/09/taxi-driver-charges-tourists-e485-for-schiphol-to-amsterdam-hotel-trip/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/09/taxi-driver-ch... [2] http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/02/judges-uphold-schiphol-taxi-tout-ban-licenced-cabs-only-allowed/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/02/judges-uphold-...
- Freak_NL 10y ago
  To be fair, it is mostly just the taxis in Amsterdam that are notoriously bad — precisely because there are so many tourists. These taxi drivers would rather serve tourists with trips to and from the airport exclusively (it pays rather well, and you can easily scam the type of tourist that limits their visit to our country to just Amsterdam). Taxis in most cities here are actually okay on the whole.
  - cr1895 10y ago
    I've still encountered the "oh we'll have to go to an ATM instead" in the Hague despite explicitly asking the dispatcher if I could pay by card. That was for an expensive trip to Schiphol, for which 4(!) Uber drivers I had requested decided to cancel. It can be that the same drivers will work for Uber (black level) and for taxi companies. The taxi companies that I've encountered in the NL don't have anything comparable to an app where you can hail and pay, so for that reason alone Uber still may provide a better service even though the drivers may be the same.
gtirloni 10y ago

chinathrow 10y ago

Name droping at its finest... "Eric Holder", "President Obama"... What's next Uber? Deleting Uber kills kittens?

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

On Tuesday I contacted Uber about Fowler's account. (I've supported them in New York City and Albany, albeit informally, and wanted to know if I needed to make the rounds and recant my support.) The response? "Thank you for writing in to Uber Support...for any information related to the U.S. immigration ban, please see our Newsroom post..." Thanks bot. I request again. "I can’t speak to your concerns or questions regarding this issue." Swallow my pride and recant it is...

manicdee 10y ago
Isn't it illegal to comment on matters before the court or due to appear before the court?
- dmoy 10y ago
  It's not illegal, it's just really not beneficial (to the litigant). So generally your lawyers will tell you to shut up, because you might say something that'll torpedo you in court, but it's not illegal.

brudgers 10y ago

Everyone at Uber is hurting Fowler is not at Uber. Nobody at Uber is taking responsibility. No statement from Uber has been explicit that the behaviors are upsetting or that losing an engineer because of company culture as manifested in the workplace was upsetting. The statements have all been about how reading the post made people unhappy (perhaps because the behavior was made public). The loss of company value due to the fallout probably makes people unhappy too. Heck, any bad press will make people unhappy. Uber's response narrative reminds me of a "What's really important here is how hitting you makes me feel bad about myself" bully.