5 ms·

I've seen these two videos a long time ago and they are GREAT advice. It's actually scary the kind of stuff the cop says he has done and other cops will do to

by dotBen 16y ago

I've seen these two videos a long time ago and they are GREAT advice. It's actually scary the kind of stuff the cop says he has done and other cops will do to you during questioning. In the UK, where I'm originally from, the police are not allowed to lie or ask you to do anything outside of your rights and so it is total wake up call for anyone who is not used to the way the police work here in the US. This video is also useful, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk However, a friend who I talked to about this did make a counter perspective... that sometimes it is worth talking to the cops in the right circumstances. For example, if you are pulled over cos you just ran a stop sign and you have nothing illegal on you/in the car/etc then it is better just to talk to the cop and get the ticket dealt with. If you start playing the 'not going to say anything' and 'no you can't look in the car' then you are opening yourself up for a long painful experience and potentially arrest if they decide to fuck back with you and they can pin some suspicion for something on you (eg you are driving through an area that happens to be associated with drug sale, you have a LeatherMan tool you and the cop can say the knife was being carried for other intent, etc) Cops are naturally authoritarian and can choose to make your life hell if they think you are trying to be superior or above them.

branden 16y ago
If everyone who is innocent cedes their rights then yeah, asserting your rights will make you look suspicious. So never cede your rights to a cop under any circumstances. That's too important a principle to sacrifice for a more convenient traffic stop.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  In a certain way it is already too late. Cops can pin random 'catch all' charges on your because the law allows them, some are vengeful and power hungry, they can legally lie to you, it is seems the system is already stacked up against you. In other words, if you ran stop sign, do you want to be a "constitutional martyr" and expose yourself to a cop's rage? Do you want to be detained for a day when you have a family and a job to go to, do you want your car towed, do you want random charges that are hard to defend slapped on you? Even if all charges are cleared by a judge, the amount of effort, time and money spent is too much for most people to handle. They'd rather fly under the radar, hopefully, the cops will catch the next guy...
  - branden 16y ago
    I don't see how you could be detained or have your car towed for refusing a search or any requests beyond your name, driver's license, and insurance. Maybe the officer could fabricate a traffic charge, which you could contest. (I'll agree you're likely screwed there - when it comes to traffic infractions you're guilty until proven innocent.) The officer might decide he smells something and force a search which makes you late for an appointment. Unfortunate for sure, and spiteful on the officer's part. But I don't think this reaches the level of martyrdom, and it'd be worth the shot of pride I get from defending my rights (though I understand not everyone would feel that way). Am I missing something? What else could a cop do that doesn't require documented evidence of wrongdoing? I suppose Chicago-level corruption could wreck your life, and if that's the environment you're in then it's probably best to keep your head down. And take part in local government, or consider moving.
    - rdtsc 16y ago
      They can fabricate a charge. There are enough catch-all charges : "interfering with official business", "obstruction of justice", "looking suspicious" (my friend got a ticket for "suspicious behavior" in one of the mid-Western states!). Your tires could seem to be too bold, your windshield could have a crack, your turn light might not work properly. Then the cop start "smelling drugs" that are not there (police camera don't have smell detectors!). He might decide you need to a DUI test. You might be to close to a drug or prostitution area -- so just that lets them arrest you. He thinks your license if fake, so he detains you to take you to the station to establish your identity. If he detains or arrests you, your car is towed. You don't show up for work, your family is worried about you. Basically, you cannot win. You can only lose after you encounter a cop. I guess what I am saying is that I am disappointed at the legal system and the disproportional power the police can project. But aside from calling my congressman, I don't know if I'd want to try to be a "constitutional martyr" and get a cop angry at me...
    - asmithmd1 16y ago
      He can claim that his computer check shows that you canceled your car insurance. You are not allowed to drive your car, you are not allowed to park it here so they tow to the impound lot. This happened to me, when someone else checked the next day it seems he mis-read his in car computer -- there is nothing wrong with my insurance and I am free to get my car after paying for towing and storage fee.
mturmon 16y ago
I agree with your friend; the optimal strategy is more nuanced than "don't say anything".
JshWright 16y ago
My reply to your other US/UK comment in this thread is pertinent here too... I just don't feel like repeating myself: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1371237 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1371237
CWuestefeld 16y ago
More information in YouTube videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights Learn how to deal with police by asserting your constitutional rights. Including "10 rules for dealing with police" and other things.

by dotBen 16y ago

branden 16y ago

If everyone who is innocent cedes their rights then yeah, asserting your rights will make you look suspicious. So never cede your rights to a cop under any circumstances. That's too important a principle to sacrifice for a more convenient traffic stop.

rdtsc 16y ago
In a certain way it is already too late. Cops can pin random 'catch all' charges on your because the law allows them, some are vengeful and power hungry, they can legally lie to you, it is seems the system is already stacked up against you. In other words, if you ran stop sign, do you want to be a "constitutional martyr" and expose yourself to a cop's rage? Do you want to be detained for a day when you have a family and a job to go to, do you want your car towed, do you want random charges that are hard to defend slapped on you? Even if all charges are cleared by a judge, the amount of effort, time and money spent is too much for most people to handle. They'd rather fly under the radar, hopefully, the cops will catch the next guy...
- branden 16y ago
  I don't see how you could be detained or have your car towed for refusing a search or any requests beyond your name, driver's license, and insurance. Maybe the officer could fabricate a traffic charge, which you could contest. (I'll agree you're likely screwed there - when it comes to traffic infractions you're guilty until proven innocent.) The officer might decide he smells something and force a search which makes you late for an appointment. Unfortunate for sure, and spiteful on the officer's part. But I don't think this reaches the level of martyrdom, and it'd be worth the shot of pride I get from defending my rights (though I understand not everyone would feel that way). Am I missing something? What else could a cop do that doesn't require documented evidence of wrongdoing? I suppose Chicago-level corruption could wreck your life, and if that's the environment you're in then it's probably best to keep your head down. And take part in local government, or consider moving.
  - rdtsc 16y ago
    They can fabricate a charge. There are enough catch-all charges : "interfering with official business", "obstruction of justice", "looking suspicious" (my friend got a ticket for "suspicious behavior" in one of the mid-Western states!). Your tires could seem to be too bold, your windshield could have a crack, your turn light might not work properly. Then the cop start "smelling drugs" that are not there (police camera don't have smell detectors!). He might decide you need to a DUI test. You might be to close to a drug or prostitution area -- so just that lets them arrest you. He thinks your license if fake, so he detains you to take you to the station to establish your identity. If he detains or arrests you, your car is towed. You don't show up for work, your family is worried about you. Basically, you cannot win. You can only lose after you encounter a cop. I guess what I am saying is that I am disappointed at the legal system and the disproportional power the police can project. But aside from calling my congressman, I don't know if I'd want to try to be a "constitutional martyr" and get a cop angry at me...
  - asmithmd1 16y ago
    He can claim that his computer check shows that you canceled your car insurance. You are not allowed to drive your car, you are not allowed to park it here so they tow to the impound lot. This happened to me, when someone else checked the next day it seems he mis-read his in car computer -- there is nothing wrong with my insurance and I am free to get my car after paying for towing and storage fee.

mturmon 16y ago

I agree with your friend; the optimal strategy is more nuanced than "don't say anything".

JshWright 16y ago

My reply to your other US/UK comment in this thread is pertinent here too... I just don't feel like repeating myself: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1371237 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1371237

CWuestefeld 16y ago

More information in YouTube videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights Learn how to deal with police by asserting your constitutional rights. Including "10 rules for dealing with police" and other things.