4 ms·

> it's shortsighted to say that the problem Uber is addressing isn't an important one. Giving people mobility can have a drastically positive impact on local ec

by Lazare 10y ago

> it's shortsighted to say that the problem Uber is addressing isn't an important one. Giving people mobility can have a drastically positive impact on local economies, housing, the environment, etc. In fact it's such an important problem, that there were already a lot of people addressing it. Before Uber I had to use my phone and call a number and talk to a computer that would dispatch a cab to me. Now I use my phone and use an app to talk to a computer that would dispatch a cab to me. Yes, the app is better, but I'm not being "given mobility", I'm being given the freedom to save a couple seconds of effort. Which is, you know, nice. But no, it doesn't have a drastically positive impact on anyone or anything. (And since Uber launched in my area, some of the local taxi companies have launched very credible apps, so even that advantage turned out to be fleeting.)

brd529 10y ago
You were blessed with a healthy cab system then. In San Francisco pre-uber, you could not rely on being able to hail a cab if you were not in the financial district. If you called the cab company you would be on hold for 10-30 minutes before you could talk to dispatch, and then maybe the cab would come, but probably not if they found a fare along the way.
- jsemrau 10y ago
  Sounds like it might still be largely probably an American problem (?), which would explain the overall struggle that Uber is facing? Japan and Europe in general have well working taxi systems. Thus I would challenge if the valuation is really justified...
  - hueving 10y ago
    Well Uber and Lyft fit well anywhere there is a shitty cab system. The entire reason I use them is because I don't want to call someone on the phone, get a cab 15 mins later (if lucky), have the cab take me on an inefficient route to boost the fare, and then claim the credit card reader is broken. Most places in the US don't have a taxi system, they have scammers driving around in cars willing to gouge you for a ride.
  - rusk 10y ago
    I'm amazed that "Hailo" doesn't get mentioned on here more. To me it predates Uber, but I don't know the exact timelines. The premise is similar - you use it to hail cabs and you have a maps screen that shows where cars are, how long they'll take to get you, taxi drivers number etc. But the business model is crucially different: Instead of trying to eat the whole cake Hailo just acts as a go-between customers and extant independent taxi drivers. It really is a non-zero sum for everybody involved. Customers get to "Uberify" their existing taxi service; Existing qualified experienced cabbies have a new conduit through which to access customers. Hailo themselves take a commision on each fare the driver books. To me this is a far better proposition: A technology that improves the lot of everybody involved. Not just - and I use the term hesitantly - "scabbing" existing drivers. It seems to me that much of Uber's growth and success is not just based on the technology but also on the gaming of employment regulations, bypassing regulations, and a smidgin of exploitation. Many make the case that regulation is a barrier to improving services and only serves to protect vested interests and this may well be the case in places where Uber has flourished and Uber may in fact provide better employment terms in some cases. I don't know, but in many cases the taxi regulations exist to protect the customer .. to which Hailo is simply a welcome augmentation - rather than a replacement.
    - nailer 10y ago
      Supply of taxis in London is artificially limited: the licenses cost an exorbitant amount of money and drivers arerecquired to memorize routes and locations rather than using technology to aid them. As a result, Black Cabs are expensive. The drivers also have a famous tendency for racist rants and their captive audience. Hailo doesn't do anything to make travel more affordable.
      - rusk 10y ago
        > Hailo doesn't do anything to make travel more affordable. That is a fair point. With regards to drivers having to have "the knowledge" I consider that more a feature than a bug. I've gotten a few taxis in the last while with drivers relying solely on GPS - including a couple of Hailo drivers - who ended up taking hopelessly circuitous routes, or even got lost altogether. Agree that the artificial limit of taxis and cost of licence is an issue. You should try getting a taxi in Dublin where there was wholesale deregulation about 15 years ago. You can get a taxi in minutes! Sucked for the drivers at the time though. I believe in London you also have the option of the "minicab" (here they're called "hackey" cabs) - which is what the Uber business model really augments. All it takes is for those guys to catch up with technology and Uber becomes irrelevant once more. I'd be fairly sure they're up-to-date on the dubious labour practices though /s
voltagex_ 10y ago
The "local" (regional Australia) taxi app absolutely has a positive impact on me. I can now reliably select a wheelchair taxi and get alerts when it's nearby. With the phone dispatch system I had to convince the IVR to give me a real person to speak to, explain that yes I definitely did need a wheelchair van and then wasn't given any other ETA. In one city over, the ETA message used to cost 75 cents!
umanwizard 10y ago
Did you really use cab dispatch services before uber and it was this nice?? What city did you live in?
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  In various UK cities I call the cab company (people generally know a few numbers as they are easy to remember and advertised heavily), instantly speak to a human who you tell where you are going and where you want to be picked up, and they tell you how many minutes until your cab arrives (generally 5-10mins with a max of about 15mins). Most companies will also automatically text you when the cab pulls up outside. In London in use Uber because it is cheaper + fare splitting but this habit has actually cost me money. When I went to a smaller UK city recently I ordered an Uber instead of just hailing a cab on the street like I used to. It cost me 4x what I usually pay and the driver had no idea where he was going. So I guess my point is that both have their uses and in some cases cab companies can be better than Uber.
magic_beans 10y ago
I grew up in sprawling LA and didn't have a car. My mobility was supremely restricted, as I lived in a non-walkable cliff area far from public transportation. Cabs and car services were insanely expensive. Now I know people in LA who have sold their cars and travel exclusively via Uber.

by Lazare 10y ago

brd529 10y ago

You were blessed with a healthy cab system then. In San Francisco pre-uber, you could not rely on being able to hail a cab if you were not in the financial district. If you called the cab company you would be on hold for 10-30 minutes before you could talk to dispatch, and then maybe the cab would come, but probably not if they found a fare along the way.

jsemrau 10y ago
Sounds like it might still be largely probably an American problem (?), which would explain the overall struggle that Uber is facing? Japan and Europe in general have well working taxi systems. Thus I would challenge if the valuation is really justified...
- hueving 10y ago
  Well Uber and Lyft fit well anywhere there is a shitty cab system. The entire reason I use them is because I don't want to call someone on the phone, get a cab 15 mins later (if lucky), have the cab take me on an inefficient route to boost the fare, and then claim the credit card reader is broken. Most places in the US don't have a taxi system, they have scammers driving around in cars willing to gouge you for a ride.
- rusk 10y ago
  I'm amazed that "Hailo" doesn't get mentioned on here more. To me it predates Uber, but I don't know the exact timelines. The premise is similar - you use it to hail cabs and you have a maps screen that shows where cars are, how long they'll take to get you, taxi drivers number etc. But the business model is crucially different: Instead of trying to eat the whole cake Hailo just acts as a go-between customers and extant independent taxi drivers. It really is a non-zero sum for everybody involved. Customers get to "Uberify" their existing taxi service; Existing qualified experienced cabbies have a new conduit through which to access customers. Hailo themselves take a commision on each fare the driver books. To me this is a far better proposition: A technology that improves the lot of everybody involved. Not just - and I use the term hesitantly - "scabbing" existing drivers. It seems to me that much of Uber's growth and success is not just based on the technology but also on the gaming of employment regulations, bypassing regulations, and a smidgin of exploitation. Many make the case that regulation is a barrier to improving services and only serves to protect vested interests and this may well be the case in places where Uber has flourished and Uber may in fact provide better employment terms in some cases. I don't know, but in many cases the taxi regulations exist to protect the customer .. to which Hailo is simply a welcome augmentation - rather than a replacement.
  - nailer 10y ago
    Supply of taxis in London is artificially limited: the licenses cost an exorbitant amount of money and drivers arerecquired to memorize routes and locations rather than using technology to aid them. As a result, Black Cabs are expensive. The drivers also have a famous tendency for racist rants and their captive audience. Hailo doesn't do anything to make travel more affordable.
    - rusk 10y ago
      > Hailo doesn't do anything to make travel more affordable. That is a fair point. With regards to drivers having to have "the knowledge" I consider that more a feature than a bug. I've gotten a few taxis in the last while with drivers relying solely on GPS - including a couple of Hailo drivers - who ended up taking hopelessly circuitous routes, or even got lost altogether. Agree that the artificial limit of taxis and cost of licence is an issue. You should try getting a taxi in Dublin where there was wholesale deregulation about 15 years ago. You can get a taxi in minutes! Sucked for the drivers at the time though. I believe in London you also have the option of the "minicab" (here they're called "hackey" cabs) - which is what the Uber business model really augments. All it takes is for those guys to catch up with technology and Uber becomes irrelevant once more. I'd be fairly sure they're up-to-date on the dubious labour practices though /s

voltagex_ 10y ago

The "local" (regional Australia) taxi app absolutely has a positive impact on me. I can now reliably select a wheelchair taxi and get alerts when it's nearby. With the phone dispatch system I had to convince the IVR to give me a real person to speak to, explain that yes I definitely did need a wheelchair van and then wasn't given any other ETA. In one city over, the ETA message used to cost 75 cents!

umanwizard 10y ago

Did you really use cab dispatch services before uber and it was this nice?? What city did you live in?

k-mcgrady 10y ago
In various UK cities I call the cab company (people generally know a few numbers as they are easy to remember and advertised heavily), instantly speak to a human who you tell where you are going and where you want to be picked up, and they tell you how many minutes until your cab arrives (generally 5-10mins with a max of about 15mins). Most companies will also automatically text you when the cab pulls up outside. In London in use Uber because it is cheaper + fare splitting but this habit has actually cost me money. When I went to a smaller UK city recently I ordered an Uber instead of just hailing a cab on the street like I used to. It cost me 4x what I usually pay and the driver had no idea where he was going. So I guess my point is that both have their uses and in some cases cab companies can be better than Uber.

magic_beans 10y ago

I grew up in sprawling LA and didn't have a car. My mobility was supremely restricted, as I lived in a non-walkable cliff area far from public transportation. Cabs and car services were insanely expensive. Now I know people in LA who have sold their cars and travel exclusively via Uber.