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[edit] Tomluck pointed out below that this post can be misinterpreted. I don't want to discount people's experiences - and there is definitely work to be done.

by kposehn 10y ago

[edit] Tomluck pointed out below that this post can be misinterpreted. I don't want to discount people's experiences - and there is definitely work to be done. But at the same time there is a lot of great things too, so we can have a healthy perspective. Thanks to those who are discussing it! --- I could go into detail about my experience at Uber (which is great), but a friend and coworker I really admire did a much better job. Here's her LinkedIn post: "Uber has been a lot in news lately, and not for all good reasons. While as an Uber employee, I think there are things (in fact, many things!) we can do better, one thing that I couldn't agree less with are the allegations of Uber being a discriminatory, anti-women culture. "While I am deeply saddened with what was recently brought to light, and being a woman, demand that the investigation is urgently, unbiasedly done, I also want to say that as a woman, an immigrant woman, I have never felt even an iota of discrimination, let alone harassment. "When I moved to the US about a year ago, with no job and plenty of dreams, Uber was one of the few companies that gave me a chance to prove myself in a new country. And, since then, I haven't just survived, but thrived here. I look forward to coming to work daily, making my contribution, and having a say in shaping a company that's changing so much around us. Again, I feel deeply sorry for the recent situation that came into light, but I stand against anyone who generalizes that Uber epitomizes a discriminatory culture for it couldn't be further from truth. "[Her] Disclaimer: These views are my personal views, and in no way linked to my employer's. I just feel an overwhelming need for sharing my personal experience working at a place that has given me so much in terms of learning and growth."

leereeves 10y ago
The impression I got from the story I believe she's describing wasn't "discriminatory, anti-women culture" as much as "very bad manager" (to the point of sexual harassment) and Uber not doing anything about it.
- flootch 10y ago
  It's not dark out at night, it's just that the earth has blocked the sun.
- kposehn 10y ago
  Fair point - thanks for making it. I wanted to see if I can inject some perspective here overall and Her post covers both to a fair degree. I think that it is hard for us all at times to remember that large orgs can have pretty varied cultures and that some bad experiences don't speak for the whole. Hoping we can have a productive discussion about culture in this thread :)
  - taurath 10y ago
    It's one of the downsides of being such a large company, some bad PR story is treated as if from one entity, because in people's minds Uber is just Uber. Having been on both the inside and outside when a horrifying news story comes out, I always try to err on the side of caution. It is near impossible as an outsider to know whether the problem is systemic or not. Interestingly, I'll bet it really slows down the amount of idealistic people who'd want to apply for a company though - I keep telling friends at amazon I'd be interested to apply but the risk of being put on one of the "bad teams" seems very high, and they've generally been in agreement because they agree it would be a risk - they read the same stories.
    - kposehn 10y ago
      So well put. Thank you for summing it up far better than I could have :)
- kposehn 10y ago
  I'm also not sure that companies sponsor people 100% of the time when they are a fit for a role - do you know? Honestly curious.
- gydfi 10y ago
  Which is a fair complaint. But lots of people seem to be overreacting. I imagine any number of large employers would have much worse stories than that out there somewhere.
- lzecon 10y ago
  Uber not doing anything about it is that "discriminatory, anti-women culture" you're looking for.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    That's bad, yes, but one bad manager does not a "culture" make.
    - greghatch 10y ago
      I mean, it does if the culture is to turn a blind eye to managers that do this. Of course, from what I can tell, there's far more than one problem manager involved in all this.
taurath 10y ago
> "Uber was one of the few companies that gave me a chance to prove myself in a new country" My understanding is that Uber is relatively top-tier both in difficulties of interviewing and competitiveness of getting hired there - is this not the case? If it is, it seems kind of disingenuous to think they did her a favor when in reality she could probably pick and choose 80% of the companies in SV if Uber was looking to hire her.
- kposehn 10y ago
  It is indeed a high bar, but not every top-tier company has a role open for someone with her skill set at the same time. I can't speak to specifics on who else she talked to, but she is damn good at what she does.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
username223 10y ago
> Heading affiliate marketing and new channel development at Uber. The shilling gets old. Please stop.
- kposehn 10y ago
  I'm coming to the defense of the team and company I believe in. I would not presume to ask you to stop if you were in the same situation.
  - username223 10y ago
    You're coming to the defense of the people who pay you to "defend" and promote them. You should probably try to be a bit more subtle when doing this for your next employer.
    - kposehn 10y ago
      I'm sad you see it that way, as that isn't the case. I may be in marketing, but it is my choice to defend what I believe in regardless of my role.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - tomlock 10y ago
        What do you believe in? I ask since your post seems to suggest you believe there isn't a problem, that you may feel the issue has been played up. edit: <3
        kposehn 10y ago
        I do believe in us doing better than before and that we definitely have work to do. I don't want to seem like I'm discounting anyone's experience - it seems some interpret me as doing that. Argh. I'm hoping we as a community (HN) can keep it in perspective and be productive in how we discuss it.
Mz 10y ago
So I am presuming you are male. I am presuming you did not get her explicit permission to post that here. I see you also do not really give her credit by name, supporting link, whatever -- probably because you do not have her permission. Maybe you should wonder a bit more about why your experience at the company is "great" when all I hear seems to be about how completely poisonous the company is. Because it looks like you may be part of the problem, not part of the solution. Edit: I say that because you are using some woman's words out of context to further your agenda in a predominantly male discussion forum. This is suspicious behavior, at best. It fits completely with what I have read Susan Fowler say about how women got treated there while she was working there. I wish more people readily recognized the pattern and how very ugly it is.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- kposehn 10y ago
  I understand your suspicion, but there is no agenda. That said, your point about a pattern of sorts is something that did give me pause. I did get permission and chose not to post her name for privacy' sake. I hope that allays your concerns somewhat :)
  - jetcata 10y ago
    What is it you want to discuss then? What is your agenda here? To say "not all of Uber is bad"? Whilst that may be the case, there's no denying what actually happened and that there are significant organizational and cultural issues in the company.
    - kposehn 10y ago
      Not really an agenda per se, more that I trust the HN community to think about solutions to problems at scale - such as culture at scale. I'd love input on how to manage cultures and performance in a massive global org, purely because I want to learn how this sort of thing can be avoided for all of us, not just Uber. How do you allow a fast, push-the-envelope culture without it getting out of hand? How can orgs that grow extremely rapidly handle these situations and work to not have them happen in the first place? So many questions, really. Trying to find a good place to start. Any thoughts?
guelo 10y ago
Wonder if she got a leather jacket.
RikNieu 10y ago
How do you just move to the US with no job?
- linkregister 10y ago
  Student visa. It's gotten pretty common in the last 5 years.
gillianlish 10y ago
Here is my friend's linkedin post. "Every day that week, T. beat me up in the bathroom. He told me if i didnt say nice things about the company, he'd force me to get an abortion and have me deported. I told him I would post on LinkedIn about how much I loved the company. He said that he would need approval on that post per the company social media policy. The next day he had me in a meeting with HR where I had to admit that I attacked him in the bathroom and came on to him. That I would undergo counseling for my anger problems and that I would be on probation. I signed a letter thanking T. for his understanding of my mental problems. If I ever told anyone, he said, he would blackball me from the industry. There is a private database accessed by people who went to certain frats in the Ivy League - just like they had private databases of old final exams to study over the years, they also have private databases of troublemakers in their industries. This is what they do. This is their particular set of skills, developed over a lifetime. Then he told me he accepted my apology, and would only take a small amount out of my bonus for the clothes I damaged while I was attacking him. He's not a bad guy. I'm not saying he's a bad guy at all. I just wish he wouldn't get so upset when people make mistakes or do things wrong "
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- TorKlingberg 10y ago
  Are you quoting an actual linkedin post about Uber? If so, that's terrible.
  - sudshekhar 10y ago
    I think the post was sarcastic

by kposehn 10y ago

leereeves 10y ago

The impression I got from the story I believe she's describing wasn't "discriminatory, anti-women culture" as much as "very bad manager" (to the point of sexual harassment) and Uber not doing anything about it.

flootch 10y ago
It's not dark out at night, it's just that the earth has blocked the sun.
kposehn 10y ago
Fair point - thanks for making it. I wanted to see if I can inject some perspective here overall and Her post covers both to a fair degree. I think that it is hard for us all at times to remember that large orgs can have pretty varied cultures and that some bad experiences don't speak for the whole. Hoping we can have a productive discussion about culture in this thread :)
- taurath 10y ago
  It's one of the downsides of being such a large company, some bad PR story is treated as if from one entity, because in people's minds Uber is just Uber. Having been on both the inside and outside when a horrifying news story comes out, I always try to err on the side of caution. It is near impossible as an outsider to know whether the problem is systemic or not. Interestingly, I'll bet it really slows down the amount of idealistic people who'd want to apply for a company though - I keep telling friends at amazon I'd be interested to apply but the risk of being put on one of the "bad teams" seems very high, and they've generally been in agreement because they agree it would be a risk - they read the same stories.
  - kposehn 10y ago
    So well put. Thank you for summing it up far better than I could have :)
kposehn 10y ago
I'm also not sure that companies sponsor people 100% of the time when they are a fit for a role - do you know? Honestly curious.
gydfi 10y ago
Which is a fair complaint. But lots of people seem to be overreacting. I imagine any number of large employers would have much worse stories than that out there somewhere.
lzecon 10y ago
Uber not doing anything about it is that "discriminatory, anti-women culture" you're looking for.
- leereeves 10y ago
  That's bad, yes, but one bad manager does not a "culture" make.
  - greghatch 10y ago
    I mean, it does if the culture is to turn a blind eye to managers that do this. Of course, from what I can tell, there's far more than one problem manager involved in all this.

taurath 10y ago

> "Uber was one of the few companies that gave me a chance to prove myself in a new country" My understanding is that Uber is relatively top-tier both in difficulties of interviewing and competitiveness of getting hired there - is this not the case? If it is, it seems kind of disingenuous to think they did her a favor when in reality she could probably pick and choose 80% of the companies in SV if Uber was looking to hire her.

kposehn 10y ago
It is indeed a high bar, but not every top-tier company has a role open for someone with her skill set at the same time. I can't speak to specifics on who else she talked to, but she is damn good at what she does.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

username223 10y ago

> Heading affiliate marketing and new channel development at Uber. The shilling gets old. Please stop.

kposehn 10y ago
I'm coming to the defense of the team and company I believe in. I would not presume to ask you to stop if you were in the same situation.
- username223 10y ago
  You're coming to the defense of the people who pay you to "defend" and promote them. You should probably try to be a bit more subtle when doing this for your next employer.
  - kposehn 10y ago
    I'm sad you see it that way, as that isn't the case. I may be in marketing, but it is my choice to defend what I believe in regardless of my role.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - tomlock 10y ago
      What do you believe in? I ask since your post seems to suggest you believe there isn't a problem, that you may feel the issue has been played up. edit: <3
      - kposehn 10y ago
        I do believe in us doing better than before and that we definitely have work to do. I don't want to seem like I'm discounting anyone's experience - it seems some interpret me as doing that. Argh. I'm hoping we as a community (HN) can keep it in perspective and be productive in how we discuss it.

Mz 10y ago

So I am presuming you are male. I am presuming you did not get her explicit permission to post that here. I see you also do not really give her credit by name, supporting link, whatever -- probably because you do not have her permission. Maybe you should wonder a bit more about why your experience at the company is "great" when all I hear seems to be about how completely poisonous the company is. Because it looks like you may be part of the problem, not part of the solution. Edit: I say that because you are using some woman's words out of context to further your agenda in a predominantly male discussion forum. This is suspicious behavior, at best. It fits completely with what I have read Susan Fowler say about how women got treated there while she was working there. I wish more people readily recognized the pattern and how very ugly it is.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kposehn 10y ago
I understand your suspicion, but there is no agenda. That said, your point about a pattern of sorts is something that did give me pause. I did get permission and chose not to post her name for privacy' sake. I hope that allays your concerns somewhat :)
- jetcata 10y ago
  What is it you want to discuss then? What is your agenda here? To say "not all of Uber is bad"? Whilst that may be the case, there's no denying what actually happened and that there are significant organizational and cultural issues in the company.
  - kposehn 10y ago
    Not really an agenda per se, more that I trust the HN community to think about solutions to problems at scale - such as culture at scale. I'd love input on how to manage cultures and performance in a massive global org, purely because I want to learn how this sort of thing can be avoided for all of us, not just Uber. How do you allow a fast, push-the-envelope culture without it getting out of hand? How can orgs that grow extremely rapidly handle these situations and work to not have them happen in the first place? So many questions, really. Trying to find a good place to start. Any thoughts?

guelo 10y ago

Wonder if she got a leather jacket.

RikNieu 10y ago

How do you just move to the US with no job?

linkregister 10y ago
Student visa. It's gotten pretty common in the last 5 years.

gillianlish 10y ago

Here is my friend's linkedin post. "Every day that week, T. beat me up in the bathroom. He told me if i didnt say nice things about the company, he'd force me to get an abortion and have me deported. I told him I would post on LinkedIn about how much I loved the company. He said that he would need approval on that post per the company social media policy. The next day he had me in a meeting with HR where I had to admit that I attacked him in the bathroom and came on to him. That I would undergo counseling for my anger problems and that I would be on probation. I signed a letter thanking T. for his understanding of my mental problems. If I ever told anyone, he said, he would blackball me from the industry. There is a private database accessed by people who went to certain frats in the Ivy League - just like they had private databases of old final exams to study over the years, they also have private databases of troublemakers in their industries. This is what they do. This is their particular set of skills, developed over a lifetime. Then he told me he accepted my apology, and would only take a small amount out of my bonus for the clothes I damaged while I was attacking him. He's not a bad guy. I'm not saying he's a bad guy at all. I just wish he wouldn't get so upset when people make mistakes or do things wrong "

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
TorKlingberg 10y ago
Are you quoting an actual linkedin post about Uber? If so, that's terrible.
- sudshekhar 10y ago
  I think the post was sarcastic