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"One thing that stuck out with me is that they only hiked for 8 hours/day. That seems like a light day! compared to these races," Really. Carrying a 20kg pack

"One thing that stuck out with me is that they only hiked for 8 hours/day. That seems like a light day! compared to these races," Really. Carrying a 20kg pack for eight hours over rough terrain is less strenuous than bike riding? Do this for over 500 miles? Ever done this before? Hike on foot with 20kg packs on consecutive days? Make camp, make food, rest, break camp. Everything on your back. This is a lot more strenuous than you think. Hands down racing on a bike is much easier ^physically^ than hiking on foot carrying weight over broken terrain over long distances.

dasil003 10y ago
Over the same distance sure, but have you ever raced mountain bikes? The broken terrain thing applies as well. And the increased efficiency just translates into more speed and distance. You might think descending 10k feet on a bicycle is cake compared to hiking, but packing that elevation drop into a tiny fraction of the time leads is actually a fairly intense upper body workout.
- bootload 10y ago
  "have you ever raced mountain bikes?" No. I think the OP was referring to road racing. One question, "do you carry the bikes uphill?"
  - dasil003 10y ago
    When you hike do you ever jump down a 20-foot cliff? It's asinine to get into this dick measuring contest, you shouldn't claim your sport is more hard-core than a sport you don't know. This mentality is why Lance Armstrong got his ass handed to him the first time he tried mountain bike racing because he thought it would be easy. And yes, there are race format where you carry bikes uphill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclo-cross https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclo-cross.
justinator 10y ago
All these mountain bike races are self-supported, so they're actually very similar in the amount of gear carrying by someone doing a thru-hike with UL equipment, as you're carrying everything you'll need from start to finish, including your sleep system. Much of the course for say - the Colorado Trail is difficult enough you're not riding the bike: you're pushing it. This sort of thing [0] I've actually considered trying to hike the Colorado Trail unsupported - carrying everything I'll need from the start (except water) with NO resupplies until the end. My target time would be around 9 days. If you're trying to gauge how strenuous the types of effort I put forth when I go and do the things I do. Anyways, 8 hours seems like an easy day on the trail for sure. 8 hours hike + 8 hours sleep leaves you 8 hours for $Other_Things. Might as well hike some more! [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyznXGXiSDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyznXGXiSDk
- bootload 10y ago
  "My target time would be around 9 days. If you're trying to gauge how strenuous the types of effort I put forth when I go and do the things I do." These are good points. The distance this bloke covered was 800km. Every day another 30km. That is hard.
- kdbg 10y ago
  The current FKT for an unsupported CT hike is 9days 12hours and 32minutes. (Set this past season) So, a 9Day pace would be a new record if you went for it.
fian 10y ago
I have done both week long MTB touring off road with about 20kg of gear plus the bike. And 12 day off trail hikes through river gorges and crossing some steep ranges starting with about 24kg on my back. On the MTB I got more fatigued each day due to the pace we were riding at. This meant we were burning glycogen most of the time. When you run out of glycogen you really struggle to keep pace. On the hike the pace is usually at a level that allows effecient fat burning. Finding palatable food that has a high enough energy density and protein content to weight is a challenge. If we rode slower then I would have been less fatigued each day. Both types of activity are tiring but in different ways. The biggest difference though will come from the pace you set.
diebir 10y ago
Experienced thru hikers have packs with base weight of 6-7kg in summer. The total with food and water 9-12kg.
hsitz 10y ago
""One thing that stuck out with me is that they only hiked for 8 hours/day. That seems like a light day! compared to these races," Actually, this is probably true. 8 hours a day, averaging 18 miles per day for 486 miles over 29 days is not that much. I don't see where they say they had 20kg packs, which is quite high weight for a thru-hiker. (EDIT: See now where he says he had 40 pound pack, which is probably at heaviest point with full load of food, still high for thru-hiking and maybe a reason they logged less miles/day.) 18 miles/day is probably right around average for thru-hikers, who are mostly out for enjoyment and sense of accomplishment, not for speed. You have to be in decent shape, but it's not a high-intensity endeavor. There is a fairly sizeable subset of thru-hikers who do go for speed, though. Many average well over 40 miles per day for several months and over 2000 miles. (They're definitely not carrying 40 pound packs.) They accomplish this mostly by hiking for longer hours each day, not by moving faster, since going faster breaks their bodies down. E.g., see this article: http://www.adventuresnw.com/heather-anish-anderson-speed-queen-of-the-pct/ http://www.adventuresnw.com/heather-anish-anderson-speed-que...
- bootload 10y ago
  " 8 hours a day, averaging 18 miles per day for 486 miles over 29 days is not that much." Have you done this?
  - hsitz 10y ago
    No, although I've done many days of more than 18 miles in the mountains, including 50 mile single-day mountain races. (The elite runners complete those in around 6 to 7 hours, over terrain of similar difficulty to Colorado Trail.) I don't mean to downplay their achievement, but the article is about a pair of average thru-hikers, out for a relatively short thru-hike. It is something that the average person can do, if they set their mind to it. It doesn't really make sense to compare that effort to a race of any kind, let alone a mountain bike race -- since the thru-hikers we're talking about were not doing it as a race. Of course their effort was done at a lower level of intensity. For some perspective, a fellow recently set the Colorado Trail record with a time of 9 days 12 hours, almost three times as fast as the thru-hikers in the article: http://johnzahorian.com/coloradotrailfkt http://johnzahorian.com/coloradotrailfkt For anyone interested, here's a youtube video documenting the record effort. The guy is kind of a celebrity in hiking circles, in large part because of high-quality videos he makes of his adventures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk6CrWJdRto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk6CrWJdRto (Zahorian's effort set the "unsupported" record, which means he carried everything, including all his food, from the start, and didn't stop at any towns along the way to resupply. Most hikers carry only enough food for 3 to 5 days at a time, and resupply along the way -- understandable because it's much easier than carrying everything from the start.)
Lio 10y ago
To my mind the key difference here is the word 'race'. Your body will definitely be stressed differently if it's spending a lot of time near (above/below) lactate threshold as might be the case in a long bike race. In the cycling world that might be called power zone 4(ish). You'll probably also have to throw in a number of VO2max efforts for small hills; zone 5. In the case of hiking with a 20Kg pack, in a non-race situation, for 8 hours a day I would guess you'll mostly spend your time at a lower heart rate doing tempo work, which would mostly be zone 2. This is somewhat similar to the long, slow, steady training winter bike training that was popular before current practices of interval based training became popular. It is designed to improve muscular mitochondrial density. Another way to put it, if the through-hike had been a race against the clock the hiker might have been much more degraded by the end of the race because he wouldn't be able to pace himself the same way. I'm not a qualified sports scientist so would very much appreciate someone with more knowledge than me clarifying or correcting anything I've written.
rconti 10y ago
That sounds fine. I haven't done it for 500 miles but I've done it for 50mi, 40lb pack, all over 7000ft. Yeah, you're VERY tired at the end of the day, but I'd never compare it to racing anything but a car. I've done 100- and 200-mile bike rides in one day, and foot races up to half marathon, and I'd absolutely consider those to be harder. For one, the backpacking I could get up and do TOMORROW. The racing, not so much. And the racing I could not do 2 days in a row. The backpacking I could do, again, tomorrow, for 2 weeks, without a doubt.

dasil003 10y ago

Over the same distance sure, but have you ever raced mountain bikes? The broken terrain thing applies as well. And the increased efficiency just translates into more speed and distance. You might think descending 10k feet on a bicycle is cake compared to hiking, but packing that elevation drop into a tiny fraction of the time leads is actually a fairly intense upper body workout.

bootload 10y ago
"have you ever raced mountain bikes?" No. I think the OP was referring to road racing. One question, "do you carry the bikes uphill?"
- dasil003 10y ago
  When you hike do you ever jump down a 20-foot cliff? It's asinine to get into this dick measuring contest, you shouldn't claim your sport is more hard-core than a sport you don't know. This mentality is why Lance Armstrong got his ass handed to him the first time he tried mountain bike racing because he thought it would be easy. And yes, there are race format where you carry bikes uphill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclo-cross https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclo-cross.

justinator 10y ago

All these mountain bike races are self-supported, so they're actually very similar in the amount of gear carrying by someone doing a thru-hike with UL equipment, as you're carrying everything you'll need from start to finish, including your sleep system. Much of the course for say - the Colorado Trail is difficult enough you're not riding the bike: you're pushing it. This sort of thing [0] I've actually considered trying to hike the Colorado Trail unsupported - carrying everything I'll need from the start (except water) with NO resupplies until the end. My target time would be around 9 days. If you're trying to gauge how strenuous the types of effort I put forth when I go and do the things I do. Anyways, 8 hours seems like an easy day on the trail for sure. 8 hours hike + 8 hours sleep leaves you 8 hours for $Other_Things. Might as well hike some more! [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyznXGXiSDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyznXGXiSDk

bootload 10y ago
"My target time would be around 9 days. If you're trying to gauge how strenuous the types of effort I put forth when I go and do the things I do." These are good points. The distance this bloke covered was 800km. Every day another 30km. That is hard.
kdbg 10y ago
The current FKT for an unsupported CT hike is 9days 12hours and 32minutes. (Set this past season) So, a 9Day pace would be a new record if you went for it.

fian 10y ago

I have done both week long MTB touring off road with about 20kg of gear plus the bike. And 12 day off trail hikes through river gorges and crossing some steep ranges starting with about 24kg on my back. On the MTB I got more fatigued each day due to the pace we were riding at. This meant we were burning glycogen most of the time. When you run out of glycogen you really struggle to keep pace. On the hike the pace is usually at a level that allows effecient fat burning. Finding palatable food that has a high enough energy density and protein content to weight is a challenge. If we rode slower then I would have been less fatigued each day. Both types of activity are tiring but in different ways. The biggest difference though will come from the pace you set.

diebir 10y ago

Experienced thru hikers have packs with base weight of 6-7kg in summer. The total with food and water 9-12kg.

hsitz 10y ago

""One thing that stuck out with me is that they only hiked for 8 hours/day. That seems like a light day! compared to these races," Actually, this is probably true. 8 hours a day, averaging 18 miles per day for 486 miles over 29 days is not that much. I don't see where they say they had 20kg packs, which is quite high weight for a thru-hiker. (EDIT: See now where he says he had 40 pound pack, which is probably at heaviest point with full load of food, still high for thru-hiking and maybe a reason they logged less miles/day.) 18 miles/day is probably right around average for thru-hikers, who are mostly out for enjoyment and sense of accomplishment, not for speed. You have to be in decent shape, but it's not a high-intensity endeavor. There is a fairly sizeable subset of thru-hikers who do go for speed, though. Many average well over 40 miles per day for several months and over 2000 miles. (They're definitely not carrying 40 pound packs.) They accomplish this mostly by hiking for longer hours each day, not by moving faster, since going faster breaks their bodies down. E.g., see this article: http://www.adventuresnw.com/heather-anish-anderson-speed-queen-of-the-pct/ http://www.adventuresnw.com/heather-anish-anderson-speed-que...

bootload 10y ago
" 8 hours a day, averaging 18 miles per day for 486 miles over 29 days is not that much." Have you done this?
- hsitz 10y ago
  No, although I've done many days of more than 18 miles in the mountains, including 50 mile single-day mountain races. (The elite runners complete those in around 6 to 7 hours, over terrain of similar difficulty to Colorado Trail.) I don't mean to downplay their achievement, but the article is about a pair of average thru-hikers, out for a relatively short thru-hike. It is something that the average person can do, if they set their mind to it. It doesn't really make sense to compare that effort to a race of any kind, let alone a mountain bike race -- since the thru-hikers we're talking about were not doing it as a race. Of course their effort was done at a lower level of intensity. For some perspective, a fellow recently set the Colorado Trail record with a time of 9 days 12 hours, almost three times as fast as the thru-hikers in the article: http://johnzahorian.com/coloradotrailfkt http://johnzahorian.com/coloradotrailfkt For anyone interested, here's a youtube video documenting the record effort. The guy is kind of a celebrity in hiking circles, in large part because of high-quality videos he makes of his adventures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk6CrWJdRto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk6CrWJdRto (Zahorian's effort set the "unsupported" record, which means he carried everything, including all his food, from the start, and didn't stop at any towns along the way to resupply. Most hikers carry only enough food for 3 to 5 days at a time, and resupply along the way -- understandable because it's much easier than carrying everything from the start.)

Lio 10y ago

To my mind the key difference here is the word 'race'. Your body will definitely be stressed differently if it's spending a lot of time near (above/below) lactate threshold as might be the case in a long bike race. In the cycling world that might be called power zone 4(ish). You'll probably also have to throw in a number of VO2max efforts for small hills; zone 5. In the case of hiking with a 20Kg pack, in a non-race situation, for 8 hours a day I would guess you'll mostly spend your time at a lower heart rate doing tempo work, which would mostly be zone 2. This is somewhat similar to the long, slow, steady training winter bike training that was popular before current practices of interval based training became popular. It is designed to improve muscular mitochondrial density. Another way to put it, if the through-hike had been a race against the clock the hiker might have been much more degraded by the end of the race because he wouldn't be able to pace himself the same way. I'm not a qualified sports scientist so would very much appreciate someone with more knowledge than me clarifying or correcting anything I've written.

rconti 10y ago

That sounds fine. I haven't done it for 500 miles but I've done it for 50mi, 40lb pack, all over 7000ft. Yeah, you're VERY tired at the end of the day, but I'd never compare it to racing anything but a car. I've done 100- and 200-mile bike rides in one day, and foot races up to half marathon, and I'd absolutely consider those to be harder. For one, the backpacking I could get up and do TOMORROW. The racing, not so much. And the racing I could not do 2 days in a row. The backpacking I could do, again, tomorrow, for 2 weeks, without a doubt.