3 ms·

Why wouldn't they just detain you until the time runs out?

by mholt 10y ago

kjksf 10y ago
Because indefinite detention is not something they can lawfully do (in US, today). In contrast, suspending 4th amendment at border has been made lawful by the courts.
tptacek 10y ago
Because the time lock would be so long as to make it impractical to do that.
- mholt 10y ago
  Wouldn't that also render your account essentially useless when your trip is over? (Unless you're traveling for, what, years at a time?)
  - tptacek 10y ago
    No, again, the point of the travel lock isn't that you can't use Facebook at all, but rather than your history and social graphs are restricted. For most ordinary purposes, Facebook will probably get more usable while travel-locked.
    - halostatue 10y ago
      Yeah. Everyone* would be able to see what I’m posting during my trip (which itself could be dangerous…), but no one could see the history until after the trip. * who is normally allowed to see what is posted in the first place.
robbiemitchell 10y ago
Ideally it would not be evident that the account is in travel mode.
- 4ad 10y ago
  How can it possible be non-evident?
  - tptacek 10y ago
    A travel-locked Facebook account should just look like a quieter Facebook account.
    - 4ad 10y ago
      So, pretty evident from the most casual analysis.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        I don't think any part of the proposal depends on it not being possible to detect whether an account is travel-locked, but I'm curious about why you think it's so straightforward to tell if an account is locked? Surely, if this became popular, CBP would simply start asking aliens seeking entry whether their accounts were travel locked. And the standard advice would be, "never lie to CBP". But I'm still curious about why you think this would be so obvious.
- deong 10y ago
  I think that would be difficult to achieve. If it's minimal enough to achieve the goal, it's minimal enough to look like travel mode. If the only goal is to refuse them access to your account, you can do that already. Your devices will be confiscated, non-citizens will be refused entry, but you can do it if your device encryption is strong enough. The goal here seems to be to give you the ability to get through the border without giving up your information. If it looks like "trip mode", it's failed at that goal, and I'm not sure it's possible to make it both mainstream and stealthy enough to work.
4ad 10y ago
They don't have to detain you at all, they just have to deny you entry. Travel mode on? GTFO! In fact, this is already happening: http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531 http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-custo... > “They said, ‘Next time you come through, don’t have a cleared phone,’ and that was it. I wasn’t let through. Technological countermeasures don't seem to work. Sure, they work in the sense that they protect your data, but if the border guy doesn't like you, technology won't save you. You will be sent on your way.
QuamVideri 10y ago
Exactly - the correct solution is that border inspection of luggage (for contraband) NOT be considered a legal basis for searching my information storage. Warrantless search of gadgets / accounts should be prohibited for citizens. For non-citizens, it should require a significant justification. Finally, NONE of the data examined at the border should be stored for longer than necessary to reach a go/no-go determination.
- tptacek 10y ago
  While you get to work on repealing 223 years of jurisprudence about border searches, how about we explore things tech companies can do in the immediacy to mitigate their impact?
pseudalopex 10y ago
The idea is that it would be common, like not carrying large amounts of cash. There are good reasons for it other than limiting border searches. Some people have suggested making travel mode invisible, but it might be better if it showed the start and end dates. Customs will ask anyway, but if the time period covers the entire trip, there's less reason to search the account.

Why wouldn't they just detain you until the time runs out?

by mholt 10y ago

Why wouldn't they just detain you until the time runs out?

kjksf 10y ago

Because indefinite detention is not something they can lawfully do (in US, today). In contrast, suspending 4th amendment at border has been made lawful by the courts.

tptacek 10y ago

Because the time lock would be so long as to make it impractical to do that.

mholt 10y ago
Wouldn't that also render your account essentially useless when your trip is over? (Unless you're traveling for, what, years at a time?)
- tptacek 10y ago
  No, again, the point of the travel lock isn't that you can't use Facebook at all, but rather than your history and social graphs are restricted. For most ordinary purposes, Facebook will probably get more usable while travel-locked.
  - halostatue 10y ago
    Yeah. Everyone* would be able to see what I’m posting during my trip (which itself could be dangerous…), but no one could see the history until after the trip. * who is normally allowed to see what is posted in the first place.

robbiemitchell 10y ago

Ideally it would not be evident that the account is in travel mode.

4ad 10y ago
How can it possible be non-evident?
- tptacek 10y ago
  A travel-locked Facebook account should just look like a quieter Facebook account.
  - 4ad 10y ago
    So, pretty evident from the most casual analysis.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I don't think any part of the proposal depends on it not being possible to detect whether an account is travel-locked, but I'm curious about why you think it's so straightforward to tell if an account is locked? Surely, if this became popular, CBP would simply start asking aliens seeking entry whether their accounts were travel locked. And the standard advice would be, "never lie to CBP". But I'm still curious about why you think this would be so obvious.
deong 10y ago
I think that would be difficult to achieve. If it's minimal enough to achieve the goal, it's minimal enough to look like travel mode. If the only goal is to refuse them access to your account, you can do that already. Your devices will be confiscated, non-citizens will be refused entry, but you can do it if your device encryption is strong enough. The goal here seems to be to give you the ability to get through the border without giving up your information. If it looks like "trip mode", it's failed at that goal, and I'm not sure it's possible to make it both mainstream and stealthy enough to work.

4ad 10y ago

They don't have to detain you at all, they just have to deny you entry. Travel mode on? GTFO! In fact, this is already happening: http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531 http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-custo... > “They said, ‘Next time you come through, don’t have a cleared phone,’ and that was it. I wasn’t let through. Technological countermeasures don't seem to work. Sure, they work in the sense that they protect your data, but if the border guy doesn't like you, technology won't save you. You will be sent on your way.

QuamVideri 10y ago

Exactly - the correct solution is that border inspection of luggage (for contraband) NOT be considered a legal basis for searching my information storage. Warrantless search of gadgets / accounts should be prohibited for citizens. For non-citizens, it should require a significant justification. Finally, NONE of the data examined at the border should be stored for longer than necessary to reach a go/no-go determination.

tptacek 10y ago
While you get to work on repealing 223 years of jurisprudence about border searches, how about we explore things tech companies can do in the immediacy to mitigate their impact?

pseudalopex 10y ago

The idea is that it would be common, like not carrying large amounts of cash. There are good reasons for it other than limiting border searches. Some people have suggested making travel mode invisible, but it might be better if it showed the start and end dates. Customs will ask anyway, but if the time period covers the entire trip, there's less reason to search the account.