7 ms·

The engineering issues are really tough, though surmountable. Currently, we just can't engineer the parts that will last that long in hard vacuum. Mostly becaus

by Balgair 10y ago

The engineering issues are really tough, though surmountable. Currently, we just can't engineer the parts that will last that long in hard vacuum. Mostly because we can't test in that environment easily. Also, what do you do when all the light bulbs have burned out or gone haywire, what does that fault-tree look like for the billion and one parts on the craft? For a short journey of ~7 years, it's not a very big deal, it's just engineering issues. When you get into generation ship discussions then it becomes a human rights nightmare to trap newborns in a ship for their entire life and the lives of their descendants.

blueprint 10y ago
Yeah I'm to be honest just trying to awaken people to the priority being that we need to establish a self-sufficient colony somewhere other than Earth.
- Spare_account 10y ago
  Elon Musk is working on that. http://www.spacex.com/mars http://www.spacex.com/mars
  - blueprint 10y ago
    And you're certain enough that he's going to be able to do it in time and that he's doing it properly enough that you don't have to do anything about it. And you'll continue to go about doing the exact same things. Got it.
    - Spare_account 10y ago
      In no way attempting to deflect from my own regrettable inaction, I'm curious to know what you're doing about it?
    - maverick_iceman 10y ago
      Are you a space activist of some sort?
    - bubersson 10y ago
      Based on his previous achievements I feel like he is likely to move the field forward by big steps. And if not him the people after him. I'm not sure if pushing myself into field I don't understand much would help the progress. Scientists do science, not activists.
- Balgair 10y ago
  Well, HN is not the most optimal place to do that. There are not many of us on here and we all already know these things. 1600 Pennsylvania Pl. is a better bang for your buck.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    I think you probably mean 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. (not Pl.), Washington, D.C. Though I don't share your assessment that that is a productive place to direct citizen input on this (or any other) issue.
    - Balgair 10y ago
      Thanks!
- rocqua 10y ago
  Honestly, as long as humans stay stuck to earth, losing all humanity on earth won't hurt anyone. As long as the extinction is instant. If we have colonies, those colonies need to suffer through the knowledge that we lost earth. Establishing colonies is only imperative if the continuation of the human race is. I'd argue that humans have value only due to other humans. There is nothing inherently valuable about human life from a non-human perspective. That is not to say I don't support space colonization, just that I don't think its a moral imperative.
  - jacobush 10y ago
    "There is nothing inherently valuable about human life from a non-human perspective." How would you know?
    - nkrisc 10y ago
      It's a perfectly reasonable assumption until there's some evidence there is. Given the vastness and scale of the universe, it seems quite likely that our disappearance would never be noticed.
      - jacobush 10y ago
        Going unnoticed is not the same as inherently not valuable. Imagine aliens finding us extinct, wringing their little tentacles in dispair at the lost probing opportunities. :)
mjevans 10y ago
With a round trip parts delivery time OF a generation, and a communications delay of almost a decade (two for duplex), I don't see any reason not to classify such a mission as a short-range 'generation ship' / complete colony effort. Getting our 'eggs' out of a single cosmic basket is really important, however I think we need to at least take the baby-crawl to establishing an outpost in the asteroid belt. That would be far closer, have far more reasonable communications/parts delays, and if we can actually send up some robots to build things ahead of us, might actually be a good manufacturing base.
- battlebot 10y ago
  I'm for it, but we seem to be held up by the fact that roughly 70% of humanity is still living in the 15th century.
- Sembiance 10y ago
  I feel that advancements in quantum mechanics will solve the communication problem.
  - wyager 10y ago
    No, it almost certainly won't. Our current understanding of quantum information theory simply doesn't allow transmitting classical information faster than light. There's no room in what we don't understand that could plausibly contain FTL communication. This is a pretty fundamental result of quantum information theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem
pavel_lishin 10y ago
> it becomes a human rights nightmare to trap newborns in a ship for their entire life and the lives of their descendants. Which is exactly why we should get some people off this ship, and colonizing others! Oh, you meant the generation ship, not the Earth; nevermind.

by Balgair 10y ago

blueprint 10y ago

Yeah I'm to be honest just trying to awaken people to the priority being that we need to establish a self-sufficient colony somewhere other than Earth.

Spare_account 10y ago
Elon Musk is working on that. http://www.spacex.com/mars http://www.spacex.com/mars
- blueprint 10y ago
  And you're certain enough that he's going to be able to do it in time and that he's doing it properly enough that you don't have to do anything about it. And you'll continue to go about doing the exact same things. Got it.
  - Spare_account 10y ago
    In no way attempting to deflect from my own regrettable inaction, I'm curious to know what you're doing about it?
  - maverick_iceman 10y ago
    Are you a space activist of some sort?
  - bubersson 10y ago
    Based on his previous achievements I feel like he is likely to move the field forward by big steps. And if not him the people after him. I'm not sure if pushing myself into field I don't understand much would help the progress. Scientists do science, not activists.
Balgair 10y ago
Well, HN is not the most optimal place to do that. There are not many of us on here and we all already know these things. 1600 Pennsylvania Pl. is a better bang for your buck.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  I think you probably mean 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. (not Pl.), Washington, D.C. Though I don't share your assessment that that is a productive place to direct citizen input on this (or any other) issue.
  - Balgair 10y ago
    Thanks!
rocqua 10y ago
Honestly, as long as humans stay stuck to earth, losing all humanity on earth won't hurt anyone. As long as the extinction is instant. If we have colonies, those colonies need to suffer through the knowledge that we lost earth. Establishing colonies is only imperative if the continuation of the human race is. I'd argue that humans have value only due to other humans. There is nothing inherently valuable about human life from a non-human perspective. That is not to say I don't support space colonization, just that I don't think its a moral imperative.
- jacobush 10y ago
  "There is nothing inherently valuable about human life from a non-human perspective." How would you know?
  - nkrisc 10y ago
    It's a perfectly reasonable assumption until there's some evidence there is. Given the vastness and scale of the universe, it seems quite likely that our disappearance would never be noticed.
    - jacobush 10y ago
      Going unnoticed is not the same as inherently not valuable. Imagine aliens finding us extinct, wringing their little tentacles in dispair at the lost probing opportunities. :)

mjevans 10y ago

With a round trip parts delivery time OF a generation, and a communications delay of almost a decade (two for duplex), I don't see any reason not to classify such a mission as a short-range 'generation ship' / complete colony effort. Getting our 'eggs' out of a single cosmic basket is really important, however I think we need to at least take the baby-crawl to establishing an outpost in the asteroid belt. That would be far closer, have far more reasonable communications/parts delays, and if we can actually send up some robots to build things ahead of us, might actually be a good manufacturing base.

battlebot 10y ago
I'm for it, but we seem to be held up by the fact that roughly 70% of humanity is still living in the 15th century.
Sembiance 10y ago
I feel that advancements in quantum mechanics will solve the communication problem.
- wyager 10y ago
  No, it almost certainly won't. Our current understanding of quantum information theory simply doesn't allow transmitting classical information faster than light. There's no room in what we don't understand that could plausibly contain FTL communication. This is a pretty fundamental result of quantum information theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

pavel_lishin 10y ago

> it becomes a human rights nightmare to trap newborns in a ship for their entire life and the lives of their descendants. Which is exactly why we should get some people off this ship, and colonizing others! Oh, you meant the generation ship, not the Earth; nevermind.