5 ms·

I recently read a comment (I think it might have been on HN, but I can't find it) that said something like this: if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you'r

I recently read a comment (I think it might have been on HN, but I can't find it) that said something like this: if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you're in a far better position to teach that topic than an expert, who's so deep into it, that they can't understand the beginners. I wish I could find the source for this, because it was much better put, but that comment contains the gist of my motivation behind writing the book.

msie 10y ago
Completely agree. Currently reading a book authored by the creator of a framework and having a hard time of it. So many newbie questions. There is extra stuff I don't need to know as a beginner - put that in another book or another section. Don't interleave it with the basic material. There is stuff that make assumptions that I am an expert in the language, the code needs to be fully explained, line by line.
- thewhitetulip 10y ago
  I wrote a book in this light, https://github.com/thewhitetulip/web-dev-golang-anti-textbook/ https://github.com/thewhitetulip/web-dev-golang-anti-textboo... Feel free to let me know your feedback!
andrewbinstock 10y ago
The great benefit of experts over I-just-learned-this authors is that experts know how design x or feature y relates to other designs and features not implemented in the given project. In other words, they know a lot more context and can tell whether something that appears totally normal in the project is actually done in an unusual way that has limitations, etc.
- metalon 10y ago
  That is what is well-done in the Haskell book imho, the combination of someone just learning everything and an experienced programmer
fnord123 10y ago
The comment is probably correct. There is a concept called "the curse of knowledge" which is basically the same issue.
happy-go-lucky 10y ago
> if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you're in a far better position to teach that topic than an expert, who's so deep into it, that they can't understand the beginners. Most experts I come across are generous when it comes to sharing what they know and their generosity may sometimes get in the way of a beginner's learning, but this is not always the case.
doh 10y ago
This applies to anything that we as human do, including doctors [0]. Younger doctors that are just out of a residency are more up to date about medical science and have the facts in a fresh memory. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15710959 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15710959
- jnbiche 10y ago
  > Younger doctors that are just out of a residency are more up to date about medical science and have the facts in a fresh memory. Perhaps, but they often have not yet built up the muscle memory needed to manipulate instruments as skillfully as more experienced doctors, nor the knowledge needed to know how to handle unusual situations, both of which are particularly important for surgeons[0,1]. 0. http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2015&issue=04000&article=00006&type=abstract http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/pages/articleviewer.... 1. http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/406128 http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/4061...
  - doh 10y ago
    True. You get some, you lose some.
wwweston 10y ago
This is credible, but I'd guess that it'd be more accurately restated this way: if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you both have a fresh recall of the elements involved in reaching your level of mastery and what was involved in bridging that (personal) gap between unskilled ignorance and that mastery. Whether that puts one in a far better position to teach than an expert probably depends on the expert. I definitely had math professors for whom the charge applied, and I'd speculate that an expert who's primarily focused on further mastery/development along the edges of the field might be someone who becomes less and less able to recall or relate to what it's like to take first steps into it. But on the other hand, I had math professors who clearly thought a lot about pedagogy as well as research, and practiced both at length... and I think someone who's spent significant time teaching beginners and reflecting on that as well as practicing their discipline and refining deep insights from that is likely in a better position to teach a topic than someone who just learned. (And if you really want an optimal learning environment, put a class full of motivated learners in front of a teacher like that, and have them talk to each other. Hence the value of a good university course...)
edmccard 10y ago
> if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you're in a far better position to teach that topic than an expert That can work, assuming that (1) the particular difficulties you encountered will generalize to most other learners and that (2) being good at programming equates to being good at pedagogy. >I recently read a comment (I think it might have been on HN, but I can't find it) I think it probably was on HN.
thewhitetulip 10y ago
Is it this "we live in an ironic world, where pros decide what things are easy for newbies to understand. " https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_of_rgolang/daj23vr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_o...?

msie 10y ago

Completely agree. Currently reading a book authored by the creator of a framework and having a hard time of it. So many newbie questions. There is extra stuff I don't need to know as a beginner - put that in another book or another section. Don't interleave it with the basic material. There is stuff that make assumptions that I am an expert in the language, the code needs to be fully explained, line by line.

thewhitetulip 10y ago
I wrote a book in this light, https://github.com/thewhitetulip/web-dev-golang-anti-textbook/ https://github.com/thewhitetulip/web-dev-golang-anti-textboo... Feel free to let me know your feedback!

andrewbinstock 10y ago

The great benefit of experts over I-just-learned-this authors is that experts know how design x or feature y relates to other designs and features not implemented in the given project. In other words, they know a lot more context and can tell whether something that appears totally normal in the project is actually done in an unusual way that has limitations, etc.

metalon 10y ago
That is what is well-done in the Haskell book imho, the combination of someone just learning everything and an experienced programmer

fnord123 10y ago

The comment is probably correct. There is a concept called "the curse of knowledge" which is basically the same issue.

happy-go-lucky 10y ago

> if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you're in a far better position to teach that topic than an expert, who's so deep into it, that they can't understand the beginners. Most experts I come across are generous when it comes to sharing what they know and their generosity may sometimes get in the way of a beginner's learning, but this is not always the case.

doh 10y ago

This applies to anything that we as human do, including doctors [0]. Younger doctors that are just out of a residency are more up to date about medical science and have the facts in a fresh memory. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15710959 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15710959

jnbiche 10y ago
> Younger doctors that are just out of a residency are more up to date about medical science and have the facts in a fresh memory. Perhaps, but they often have not yet built up the muscle memory needed to manipulate instruments as skillfully as more experienced doctors, nor the knowledge needed to know how to handle unusual situations, both of which are particularly important for surgeons[0,1]. 0. http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2015&issue=04000&article=00006&type=abstract http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/pages/articleviewer.... 1. http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/406128 http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/4061...
- doh 10y ago
  True. You get some, you lose some.

wwweston 10y ago

This is credible, but I'd guess that it'd be more accurately restated this way: if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you both have a fresh recall of the elements involved in reaching your level of mastery and what was involved in bridging that (personal) gap between unskilled ignorance and that mastery. Whether that puts one in a far better position to teach than an expert probably depends on the expert. I definitely had math professors for whom the charge applied, and I'd speculate that an expert who's primarily focused on further mastery/development along the edges of the field might be someone who becomes less and less able to recall or relate to what it's like to take first steps into it. But on the other hand, I had math professors who clearly thought a lot about pedagogy as well as research, and practiced both at length... and I think someone who's spent significant time teaching beginners and reflecting on that as well as practicing their discipline and refining deep insights from that is likely in a better position to teach a topic than someone who just learned. (And if you really want an optimal learning environment, put a class full of motivated learners in front of a teacher like that, and have them talk to each other. Hence the value of a good university course...)

edmccard 10y ago

> if you recently learned/mastered a topic, you're in a far better position to teach that topic than an expert That can work, assuming that (1) the particular difficulties you encountered will generalize to most other learners and that (2) being good at programming equates to being good at pedagogy. >I recently read a comment (I think it might have been on HN, but I can't find it) I think it probably was on HN.

thewhitetulip 10y ago

Is it this "we live in an ironic world, where pros decide what things are easy for newbies to understand. " https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_of_rgolang/daj23vr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_o...?