6 ms·

Look at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigran

Look at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants[0], but at the same time have many financial ties with Thiel's practices. They have financial power to take a stand against this threat, but decide not do it. [0] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election

potatosoup 10y ago
> He represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants As an immigrant myself, I keep seeing famous people write this, but I want some kind of "citation needed." What plans does this actually refer to?
- Anderkent 10y ago
  It's not a complaint about any specific plans he has made, it's a complaint about his general approach to those communities. The risk is not that he'll implement this particular idea, it's that all of his ideas are shaped by his abusive personality.
  - Oxitendwe 10y ago
    So, what you're saying is, you have no real evidence that his policies are going to adversely affect any of these groups?
    - Anderkent 10y ago
      Are you really suggesting that a presidents personality and repeatedly stated disparaging opinions have no impact on his policies?
- beachstartup 10y ago
  they deliberately conflate legal (skilled) immigrants and illegal aliens. to them, there is no difference. it is a hyper-egalitarian interpretation of the word 'immigrant' with no basis in law or social norms.
  - srum 10y ago
    Didn't the recent travel ban attempt to revoke valid visas?
    - dboreham 10y ago
      And bar entry to valid green card holders (permanent residents).
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    > no basis in law or social norms To push back a little... I'm generally pro immigration and didn't vote for Trump (partly for these reasons). But there are valid points to be made about: * what a healthy level of immigration is * what a healthy immigration process looks like * how much should family concerns affect immigration chances * how much should professional skills affect immigration chances * how to enforce immigration laws The above are entirely about law and social norms. Just because you disagree doesn't mean there are no valid points. Not engaging those points is just retrenching people, promoting more division, and making reasonable people side with unreasonable ones like Trump. I'm gathering that most people who voted for Trump voted for the least bad option in their minds, not because they wanted a buffoon for a president.
    - beachstartup 10y ago
      wow, i must suck at writing because you just made the same point i did. namely: legal and illegal immigration are completely different things and anyone who says otherwise is disregarding law and social norms.
      - humanrebar 10y ago
        I was saying that social norms and ideal laws aren't uniform and it's more productive to start from there. The point about legal vs. illegal immigration being different is well taken. I presume even Trump agrees with that given his immigrant family.
    - 10y ago
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- chillingeffect 10y ago
  Demanding others supply widely reported and debated information doesn't make sense for this forum. Try searches like below, evaluate them and pick specific issues you think people here could help you with: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+women&t=ffsb&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+women&t=ffsb&ia=ne... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+minorities&t=ffsb&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+minorities&t=ffsb&... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+immigrants&t=ffsb&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+immigrants&t=ffsb&...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- nafizh 10y ago
  As an immigrant and minority myself, you are being intentionally obtuse.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    He should just drink the liberal koolaid?
    - mlmlmasd 10y ago
      Whenever I see someone who labels people that criticize Trump as 'liberal' I automatically label them as 'dumbass'.
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        Great. Was has that got to do with this? OP didn't 'criticize Trump', they called another poster 'intentionally obtuse' for not assuming liberal premises.
        mlmlmasd 10y ago
        You don't get it. Calling them 'liberal premises' makes you look like a dumbass.
        Chris2048 10y ago
        I'm a 'dumbass' for even questioning that liberal premises are not in any way political/ideologically motivated beliefs or perspectives, as opposed to facts you must not even be seen to question... ..AKA not drinking the kool-aid. And, as if it need to be said, your insults break HN civility rules.
        mlmlmasd 10y ago
        You still don't get it buddy.
- npizzolato 10y ago
  He's proven he's willing to enact executive orders with no notice which bar legal immigrants from entering the country. So we've got action against immigrants already. Not just plans.
knowaveragejoe 10y ago
I fail to see what this has to do with Peter Thiel's self-identification as a libertarian.
- cromwellian 10y ago
  Because he complains about government funding and distortion in markets, but became a billionaire with Palantir thanks to government funding. It's hypocritical for "libertarians" to rail against government spending, crony capitalism, and the government picking winners, and then turn around and benefit from exactly that.
  - rorykoehler 10y ago
    It's not exactly surprising as right-libertarian is a paradoxical concept. It only works if you're loaded. No actual poor person could possibly ever be considered at liberty seeing as money dictates access.
    - rvdavis 10y ago
      I would disagree on this point, being a "right"-libertarian from a low-income family, but I will happily concede that this differs from person to person, situation to situation. Libertarianism promotes and empowers the individual over the collective, and most libertarians derive their values from this ideological position. I'm not sure if you are familiar with any libertarians in your personal life, but many are deeply caring, rational individuals who have a consistent framework of ideals and strongly held beliefs against the use or threat of violence toward others. I would encourage you to engage with us more before you dismiss us, and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised :)
      - rorykoehler 10y ago
        Disclaimer: Am fairly solidly left-libertarian (the original source of the word) Collective action is the only thing that can ever empower the individual. We're standing on the soldiers of giants. It's as a collective that humans have developed all the technology that you see. It's thanks to FOSS that I and many HN visitors can earn our livings and contribute further to society. If you want to be egotistical and think you don't exist as part of a complex eco-system that both sustains and enables you through more than just economic exchanges you are free to do so but do expect to be challenged on it frequently. This message was delivered to you via the world wide web after all, which would be impossible in a right-libertarian world.
Teever 10y ago
That means two things either they don't care enough to do anything or Thiel has greater power over them than we assume. What could he have over them?
abandonliberty 10y ago
This is basic game theory. Organizations and society select for maximization of wealth/power - not ethics, morality, enlightenment, and/or aspirational value of your choice. The problem is simple: Maximize organizational wealth/power given the social, business, and political context. Anyone competing in this system who does not loses to those who do. The current response: Placate the users by agreeing with the issues and take no real actions (beyond a call for startups focusing on democracy). CGPGrey's rules for rulers on youtube is a great application of the model to politics and organizations.
- Nomentatus 10y ago
  Actually inequality has been shown to reduce a society's overall wealth and power by stifling growth. Banana Republics aren't renowned for accomplishing much.
  - abandonliberty 10y ago
    >society's overall wealth and power Your response demonstrates a lack of understanding. Identify those trying to maximize this in a BR and compare to the priority and power of other players. I would suggest that no one in any significant position of power cares about 'overall wealth and power' - otherwise you'd see a different result.
    - Nomentatus 10y ago
      I think you reversed the meaning of my response. So I'm going to count this as extremely "strenuous agreement."

potatosoup 10y ago

> He represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants As an immigrant myself, I keep seeing famous people write this, but I want some kind of "citation needed." What plans does this actually refer to?

Anderkent 10y ago
It's not a complaint about any specific plans he has made, it's a complaint about his general approach to those communities. The risk is not that he'll implement this particular idea, it's that all of his ideas are shaped by his abusive personality.
- Oxitendwe 10y ago
  So, what you're saying is, you have no real evidence that his policies are going to adversely affect any of these groups?
  - Anderkent 10y ago
    Are you really suggesting that a presidents personality and repeatedly stated disparaging opinions have no impact on his policies?
beachstartup 10y ago
they deliberately conflate legal (skilled) immigrants and illegal aliens. to them, there is no difference. it is a hyper-egalitarian interpretation of the word 'immigrant' with no basis in law or social norms.
- srum 10y ago
  Didn't the recent travel ban attempt to revoke valid visas?
  - dboreham 10y ago
    And bar entry to valid green card holders (permanent residents).
- humanrebar 10y ago
  > no basis in law or social norms To push back a little... I'm generally pro immigration and didn't vote for Trump (partly for these reasons). But there are valid points to be made about: * what a healthy level of immigration is * what a healthy immigration process looks like * how much should family concerns affect immigration chances * how much should professional skills affect immigration chances * how to enforce immigration laws The above are entirely about law and social norms. Just because you disagree doesn't mean there are no valid points. Not engaging those points is just retrenching people, promoting more division, and making reasonable people side with unreasonable ones like Trump. I'm gathering that most people who voted for Trump voted for the least bad option in their minds, not because they wanted a buffoon for a president.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    wow, i must suck at writing because you just made the same point i did. namely: legal and illegal immigration are completely different things and anyone who says otherwise is disregarding law and social norms.
    - humanrebar 10y ago
      I was saying that social norms and ideal laws aren't uniform and it's more productive to start from there. The point about legal vs. illegal immigration being different is well taken. I presume even Trump agrees with that given his immigrant family.
  - 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
chillingeffect 10y ago
Demanding others supply widely reported and debated information doesn't make sense for this forum. Try searches like below, evaluate them and pick specific issues you think people here could help you with: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+women&t=ffsb&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+women&t=ffsb&ia=ne... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+minorities&t=ffsb&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+minorities&t=ffsb&... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+immigrants&t=ffsb&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+threat+to+immigrants&t=ffsb&...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
nafizh 10y ago
As an immigrant and minority myself, you are being intentionally obtuse.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  He should just drink the liberal koolaid?
  - mlmlmasd 10y ago
    Whenever I see someone who labels people that criticize Trump as 'liberal' I automatically label them as 'dumbass'.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      Great. Was has that got to do with this? OP didn't 'criticize Trump', they called another poster 'intentionally obtuse' for not assuming liberal premises.
      - mlmlmasd 10y ago
        You don't get it. Calling them 'liberal premises' makes you look like a dumbass.
        Chris2048 10y ago
        I'm a 'dumbass' for even questioning that liberal premises are not in any way political/ideologically motivated beliefs or perspectives, as opposed to facts you must not even be seen to question... ..AKA not drinking the kool-aid. And, as if it need to be said, your insults break HN civility rules.
        mlmlmasd 10y ago
        You still don't get it buddy.
npizzolato 10y ago
He's proven he's willing to enact executive orders with no notice which bar legal immigrants from entering the country. So we've got action against immigrants already. Not just plans.

knowaveragejoe 10y ago

I fail to see what this has to do with Peter Thiel's self-identification as a libertarian.

cromwellian 10y ago
Because he complains about government funding and distortion in markets, but became a billionaire with Palantir thanks to government funding. It's hypocritical for "libertarians" to rail against government spending, crony capitalism, and the government picking winners, and then turn around and benefit from exactly that.
- rorykoehler 10y ago
  It's not exactly surprising as right-libertarian is a paradoxical concept. It only works if you're loaded. No actual poor person could possibly ever be considered at liberty seeing as money dictates access.
  - rvdavis 10y ago
    I would disagree on this point, being a "right"-libertarian from a low-income family, but I will happily concede that this differs from person to person, situation to situation. Libertarianism promotes and empowers the individual over the collective, and most libertarians derive their values from this ideological position. I'm not sure if you are familiar with any libertarians in your personal life, but many are deeply caring, rational individuals who have a consistent framework of ideals and strongly held beliefs against the use or threat of violence toward others. I would encourage you to engage with us more before you dismiss us, and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised :)
    - rorykoehler 10y ago
      Disclaimer: Am fairly solidly left-libertarian (the original source of the word) Collective action is the only thing that can ever empower the individual. We're standing on the soldiers of giants. It's as a collective that humans have developed all the technology that you see. It's thanks to FOSS that I and many HN visitors can earn our livings and contribute further to society. If you want to be egotistical and think you don't exist as part of a complex eco-system that both sustains and enables you through more than just economic exchanges you are free to do so but do expect to be challenged on it frequently. This message was delivered to you via the world wide web after all, which would be impossible in a right-libertarian world.

Teever 10y ago

That means two things either they don't care enough to do anything or Thiel has greater power over them than we assume. What could he have over them?

abandonliberty 10y ago

This is basic game theory. Organizations and society select for maximization of wealth/power - not ethics, morality, enlightenment, and/or aspirational value of your choice. The problem is simple: Maximize organizational wealth/power given the social, business, and political context. Anyone competing in this system who does not loses to those who do. The current response: Placate the users by agreeing with the issues and take no real actions (beyond a call for startups focusing on democracy). CGPGrey's rules for rulers on youtube is a great application of the model to politics and organizations.

Nomentatus 10y ago
Actually inequality has been shown to reduce a society's overall wealth and power by stifling growth. Banana Republics aren't renowned for accomplishing much.
- abandonliberty 10y ago
  >society's overall wealth and power Your response demonstrates a lack of understanding. Identify those trying to maximize this in a BR and compare to the priority and power of other players. I would suggest that no one in any significant position of power cares about 'overall wealth and power' - otherwise you'd see a different result.
  - Nomentatus 10y ago
    I think you reversed the meaning of my response. So I'm going to count this as extremely "strenuous agreement."