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"For instance, I can go rent some capital equipment and use it to build some ROI. And, afterward I pay the owner for the opportunity. I don't think that is thef

"For instance, I can go rent some capital equipment and use it to build some ROI. And, afterward I pay the owner for the opportunity. I don't think that is theft, so why would I view tax any differently?" I don't really hold this viewpoint myself, but renting capital equipment is voluntary but taxation isn't. That is a pretty significant difference.

afpx 10y ago
Could you elaborate more on that? I'm not discounting it, but the viewpoint is unfamiliar to me. I don't see taxes as involuntary. In fact, it's clearly documented how much tax I'm expected to pay in order to receive the services that I will receive. And, I'm (theoretically) free to immigrate to somewhere else that has a different tax structure. For instance, there are several countries that don't have income tax. So, before I choose to produce income, I could choose to immigrate (ignoring the complexities of that, of course). How is it involuntary? In the US, there are even people who pay zero taxes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the issue many people seem to have with taxation is the monopolistic reign of government. Sure, government is a monopoly. But, at least I know that I have some oversight over it. And, I know that there are people actively monitoring it. That gives me more comfort than if, say, Comcast was running the government. What would be cool is if I had more choice in service providers. But, to be honest, I'm lazy, and I really don't want to be comparing different service providers for different services. It's much easier for me to pay one provider. Now, if people could figure out how to make it work so that I had different options, that'd be really cool. But, that's theoretical political science type stuff that's beyond me. At the moment, I'm content. Ok, that's enough online political discourse for me, for the month. lol. But, I'm eager to read the responses, if there are any. There are a lot of people on HN way smarter than me, so I'm sure you guys have some interesting ideas.
- benchaney 10y ago
  In order for taxes to be voluntary, not only do you need to know in advance what the rules for calculating them as well as what you would receive, but you would also need the ability to opt out of paying for and receiving the service. Being able to emigrate is irrelevant because: 1. You would still have a tax burden (at least if you are American) 2. If your only option to avoid something is being expelled from your home, it hardly qualifies as involuntary. I am also generally content with my tax burden, however I still felt the need to defend people who aren't because at a theoretical level they are correct.

afpx 10y ago

Could you elaborate more on that? I'm not discounting it, but the viewpoint is unfamiliar to me. I don't see taxes as involuntary. In fact, it's clearly documented how much tax I'm expected to pay in order to receive the services that I will receive. And, I'm (theoretically) free to immigrate to somewhere else that has a different tax structure. For instance, there are several countries that don't have income tax. So, before I choose to produce income, I could choose to immigrate (ignoring the complexities of that, of course). How is it involuntary? In the US, there are even people who pay zero taxes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the issue many people seem to have with taxation is the monopolistic reign of government. Sure, government is a monopoly. But, at least I know that I have some oversight over it. And, I know that there are people actively monitoring it. That gives me more comfort than if, say, Comcast was running the government. What would be cool is if I had more choice in service providers. But, to be honest, I'm lazy, and I really don't want to be comparing different service providers for different services. It's much easier for me to pay one provider. Now, if people could figure out how to make it work so that I had different options, that'd be really cool. But, that's theoretical political science type stuff that's beyond me. At the moment, I'm content. Ok, that's enough online political discourse for me, for the month. lol. But, I'm eager to read the responses, if there are any. There are a lot of people on HN way smarter than me, so I'm sure you guys have some interesting ideas.

benchaney 10y ago
In order for taxes to be voluntary, not only do you need to know in advance what the rules for calculating them as well as what you would receive, but you would also need the ability to opt out of paying for and receiving the service. Being able to emigrate is irrelevant because: 1. You would still have a tax burden (at least if you are American) 2. If your only option to avoid something is being expelled from your home, it hardly qualifies as involuntary. I am also generally content with my tax burden, however I still felt the need to defend people who aren't because at a theoretical level they are correct.