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Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. At least in the US you don't face prison time. New

by Buge 10y ago

Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. At least in the US you don't face prison time. New Zealand asks as well.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
Sources to back this up?
- kahnpro 10y ago
  Just look at what happened to Alain Phillippon: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-that-pitted-cellphone-privacy-rights-against-border-security-powers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-ca...
OJFord 10y ago
> Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. That can't be true; at least, there must be a hell of a lot more to it. Why would Canada want to pay provide prison space for a foreign national who's committed such mundane a crime as non-cooperation, and without ill-affect on any Canadian citizens?
- kahnpro 10y ago
  If you're a foreigner, Canada will just detain you and deport you. But a Canadian citizen they will arrest and charge with obstruction of their job.
  - derrickdirge 10y ago
    Is job obstruction illegal in Canada?
    - kahnpro 10y ago
      It's specifically illegal to obstruct the work of customs officers, and it's what they were charging someone with who refused to give up his phone password. That guy ended up pleading out the day before his trial.
- pigeons 10y ago
  He was a Canadian.
- ue_ 10y ago
  >mundane a crime as non-cooperation, and without ill-affect on any Canadian citizens? They already have laws that criminalise even possession of certain pornographics drawings or stories. Make no mistakes, Canada is not a free country and has no problem with imprisonment for victimless crime.
- Buge 10y ago
  1 year was the maximum he could have been sentenced to. You're right, that the judge would probably picked a lesser sentence. In this case, he took a guilty plea deal for a $500 fine. In this case he wasn't a foreign national, but a Canadian citizen. I'm not sure if Canada will charge people who aren't citizens. http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-will-have-to-wait-longer-to-find-out-about-what-canadian-courts-think-of-cbsa-asking-for-passwords/ http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-...
angry_octet 10y ago
Not true about Canada. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665021 And the Kiwi's might ask, but only to find out if you are violating quarantine regulations.
- boomboomsubban 10y ago
  It's undecided about Canada. There is a law that could say it's punishable by a year in prison, but the law is from thirty years ago and hasn't been tried in this situation. The CBSA says that you can be arrested for failing to divulge a password though, and for now it is their opinion that matters.
  - angry_octet 10y ago
    If you read the link you will see that the CBSA policy is not to attempt to arrest people for this, due to the uncertainty. https://bccla.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CBSA-FOI-Docs.pdf https://bccla.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CBSA-FOI-Docs.p...
    - kahnpro 10y ago
      Except they actually arrested a guy and were take him to trial before he plead out at the last minute. It's undecided in Canada but the current reality is that if you refuse, expect to be charged. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-that-pitted-cellphone-privacy-rights-against-border-security-powers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-ca...
    - boomboomsubban 10y ago
      And if you read the link, that is from an almost two year old bulletin and begins with "until further instruction." I don't know what the exact FOI requests were, so all you can be certain of is "their policy under the Harper government was..."
      - angry_octet 10y ago
scj 10y ago
It probably wouldn't have survived a charter challenge... But he accepted a $500 fine that saved years of legal battles, and the CBSA doesn't get a precedent set against them. From what I've read, I'd suggest that the law is unclear at this point. It will probably be decided by the Supreme Court within a decade. But I find the ambiguity frustrating...
ohstopitu 10y ago
This is not exactly true. * Canadian' border can ask you for your local passwords. * You can refuse - at which point, if you are Canadian/PR, you are allowed to enter the country but your device is confiscated and sent to Ottawa for further examination. * They can NOT ask for online passwords (like your dropbox account for example). THAT SAID, if you give them your local password, and you are logged in to Dropbox, it's fair game. Furthermore, this has not been through the Supreme Court to set precedence.
- Buge 10y ago
  Then why was Alain Philippon arrested and charged with a crime? http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-will-have-to-wait-longer-to-find-out-about-what-canadian-courts-think-of-cbsa-asking-for-passwords/ http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-...
  - ohstopitu 10y ago
    because he refused to hand over the local passwords for his devices. I am not saying what the CBSA did was legal (as the case was dropped), but not handing over local passwords is considered "obstruction of the officer's job" by the CBSA (for which he was charged). So I'm assuming that if they did want to charge you, they could.
    - Buge 10y ago
      But you said "You can refuse". His case proves that's not true. And his case wasn't dropped. He plead guilty.

by Buge 10y ago

Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. At least in the US you don't face prison time. New Zealand asks as well.

k-mcgrady 10y ago

Sources to back this up?

kahnpro 10y ago
Just look at what happened to Alain Phillippon: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-that-pitted-cellphone-privacy-rights-against-border-security-powers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-ca...

OJFord 10y ago

> Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. That can't be true; at least, there must be a hell of a lot more to it. Why would Canada want to pay provide prison space for a foreign national who's committed such mundane a crime as non-cooperation, and without ill-affect on any Canadian citizens?

kahnpro 10y ago
If you're a foreigner, Canada will just detain you and deport you. But a Canadian citizen they will arrest and charge with obstruction of their job.
- derrickdirge 10y ago
  Is job obstruction illegal in Canada?
  - kahnpro 10y ago
    It's specifically illegal to obstruct the work of customs officers, and it's what they were charging someone with who refused to give up his phone password. That guy ended up pleading out the day before his trial.
pigeons 10y ago
He was a Canadian.
ue_ 10y ago
>mundane a crime as non-cooperation, and without ill-affect on any Canadian citizens? They already have laws that criminalise even possession of certain pornographics drawings or stories. Make no mistakes, Canada is not a free country and has no problem with imprisonment for victimless crime.
Buge 10y ago
1 year was the maximum he could have been sentenced to. You're right, that the judge would probably picked a lesser sentence. In this case, he took a guilty plea deal for a $500 fine. In this case he wasn't a foreign national, but a Canadian citizen. I'm not sure if Canada will charge people who aren't citizens. http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-will-have-to-wait-longer-to-find-out-about-what-canadian-courts-think-of-cbsa-asking-for-passwords/ http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-...

angry_octet 10y ago

Not true about Canada. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665021 And the Kiwi's might ask, but only to find out if you are violating quarantine regulations.

boomboomsubban 10y ago
It's undecided about Canada. There is a law that could say it's punishable by a year in prison, but the law is from thirty years ago and hasn't been tried in this situation. The CBSA says that you can be arrested for failing to divulge a password though, and for now it is their opinion that matters.
- angry_octet 10y ago
  If you read the link you will see that the CBSA policy is not to attempt to arrest people for this, due to the uncertainty. https://bccla.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CBSA-FOI-Docs.pdf https://bccla.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CBSA-FOI-Docs.p...
  - kahnpro 10y ago
    Except they actually arrested a guy and were take him to trial before he plead out at the last minute. It's undecided in Canada but the current reality is that if you refuse, expect to be charged. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-that-pitted-cellphone-privacy-rights-against-border-security-powers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-ca...
  - boomboomsubban 10y ago
    And if you read the link, that is from an almost two year old bulletin and begins with "until further instruction." I don't know what the exact FOI requests were, so all you can be certain of is "their policy under the Harper government was..."
    - angry_octet 10y ago

scj 10y ago

It probably wouldn't have survived a charter challenge... But he accepted a $500 fine that saved years of legal battles, and the CBSA doesn't get a precedent set against them. From what I've read, I'd suggest that the law is unclear at this point. It will probably be decided by the Supreme Court within a decade. But I find the ambiguity frustrating...

ohstopitu 10y ago

This is not exactly true. * Canadian' border can ask you for your local passwords. * You can refuse - at which point, if you are Canadian/PR, you are allowed to enter the country but your device is confiscated and sent to Ottawa for further examination. * They can NOT ask for online passwords (like your dropbox account for example). THAT SAID, if you give them your local password, and you are logged in to Dropbox, it's fair game. Furthermore, this has not been through the Supreme Court to set precedence.

Buge 10y ago
Then why was Alain Philippon arrested and charged with a crime? http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-will-have-to-wait-longer-to-find-out-about-what-canadian-courts-think-of-cbsa-asking-for-passwords/ http://www.canada-usblog.com/2016/08/16/the-waiting-game-we-...
- ohstopitu 10y ago
  because he refused to hand over the local passwords for his devices. I am not saying what the CBSA did was legal (as the case was dropped), but not handing over local passwords is considered "obstruction of the officer's job" by the CBSA (for which he was charged). So I'm assuming that if they did want to charge you, they could.
  - Buge 10y ago
    But you said "You can refuse". His case proves that's not true. And his case wasn't dropped. He plead guilty.