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> Everyone proposing clever technical solutions. Burner phones and encrypted cloud data etc... you are solving the wrong problem. Yes, and this is why I will h

> Everyone proposing clever technical solutions. Burner phones and encrypted cloud data etc... you are solving the wrong problem. Yes, and this is why I will happily pay airlines more to transfer in another country that is not America (e.g. Canada, Mexico). It sucks because it makes travel more expensive, but US airports are not traveler friendly (they could start by having international transfer zones so you don't have to do security again) and the TSA is a bloody nightmare. I also avoid travel to the US. There are plenty of interesting travel destinations which are not America you can visit. For Americans impacted by this, absolutely please write your representatives and ask they tone down this madness. For the rest of the world, if you can avoid traveling to the US, do so. Vote with your wallet and pick somewhere else.

briandear 10y ago
Back in the late 1990s, they did used to have transfer zones. I am not sure why they stopped. US airlines lose some non-trivial amount of money especially from Latin American travelers headed to Europe.
- saryant 10y ago
  Without exit immigration, none of our airports are configured in a way that makes this workable today. There's nothing stopping someone in transit from just walking out the door. Some airports are designed in a way to quickly facilitate this if the government ever changed its mind (IAH and LAX TBIT, I believe), but today none of our airports are set up for international sterile zones. From the perspective of an American departing internationally, this is a bonus since you don't have to wait in line for exit formalities.
Buge 10y ago
Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. At least in the US you don't face prison time. New Zealand asks as well.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  Sources to back this up?
  - kahnpro 10y ago
    Just look at what happened to Alain Phillippon: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-that-pitted-cellphone-privacy-rights-against-border-security-powers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-ca...
- OJFord 10y ago
  > Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. That can't be true; at least, there must be a hell of a lot more to it. Why would Canada want to pay provide prison space for a foreign national who's committed such mundane a crime as non-cooperation, and without ill-affect on any Canadian citizens?
  - kahnpro 10y ago
    If you're a foreigner, Canada will just detain you and deport you. But a Canadian citizen they will arrest and charge with obstruction of their job.
    - derrickdirge 10y ago
      Is job obstruction illegal in Canada?
      - kahnpro 10y ago
        It's specifically illegal to obstruct the work of customs officers, and it's what they were charging someone with who refused to give up his phone password. That guy ended up pleading out the day before his trial.
  - pigeons 10y ago
perseusprime11 10y ago
You are missing out on Hawaii and Alaska.
- mercurysmessage 10y ago
  Can always visit NWT, or BC.
WildUtah 10y ago
There is one flight from Latin America to east Asia. Aeromexico flies from Mexico City to Tokyo and Shanghai alternately with their 787s. (ANA is adding a NRT-MEX flight this winter also.) But there are many, many connecting flights through DFW, Houston, LAX, and SFO. The direct flight costs upwards of $500 more, often a 60% or higher premium. That's the value of avoiding transit through the USA and the visa and CIS procedures involved. (Actually, the first $100 could be the usual price for a direct flight over a connection, but the same $500+ price increment seems to apply to connecting flights.) Aeromexico is not known for its excellent seats, service, or food (though they're fine as airlines go). It's all about avoiding US officials.
- extra88 10y ago
  > one flight from Latin America to east Asia Are the countries on the continent of South America not generally considered a part of Latin America? Because there are other options from Santiago, Sao Paolo, Rio, etc. to Tokyo. Some of the options are on Air Canada, with a stop in Toronto which avoids U.S. airports but presumably not U.S. airspace so there may still be some additional scrutiny at departure. You don't actually have to go all the way to a South American city, Panama City has Air Canada flights to Tokyo. It looks like the other carriers (Emirates, KLM, Turkish Airlines) have stops in a South American city first. The Air Canada flights aren't much more expensive but the European & Asian-based carriers are much more expensive than the flights with stops in the U.S.
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    Are the countries on the continent of South America not generally considered a part of Latin America? Technically, every country in South America is considered a part of Latin America except British Guyana, Suriname, and France. Not including islands like the Malvinas or the ABC islands, of course. --- I should have specified one single flight. Of course you can fly to Dubai from São Paulo and then to Seoul or to Sydney from Santiago and then on to Peking. But direct flights are very limited.
    - dpark 10y ago

briandear 10y ago

Back in the late 1990s, they did used to have transfer zones. I am not sure why they stopped. US airlines lose some non-trivial amount of money especially from Latin American travelers headed to Europe.

saryant 10y ago
Without exit immigration, none of our airports are configured in a way that makes this workable today. There's nothing stopping someone in transit from just walking out the door. Some airports are designed in a way to quickly facilitate this if the government ever changed its mind (IAH and LAX TBIT, I believe), but today none of our airports are set up for international sterile zones. From the perspective of an American departing internationally, this is a bonus since you don't have to wait in line for exit formalities.

Buge 10y ago

Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. At least in the US you don't face prison time. New Zealand asks as well.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
Sources to back this up?
- kahnpro 10y ago
  Just look at what happened to Alain Phillippon: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-that-pitted-cellphone-privacy-rights-against-border-security-powers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-ca...
OJFord 10y ago
> Canada also requires your password at the border. Recently one guy even faced 1 year in prison for refusing. That can't be true; at least, there must be a hell of a lot more to it. Why would Canada want to pay provide prison space for a foreign national who's committed such mundane a crime as non-cooperation, and without ill-affect on any Canadian citizens?
- kahnpro 10y ago
  If you're a foreigner, Canada will just detain you and deport you. But a Canadian citizen they will arrest and charge with obstruction of their job.
  - derrickdirge 10y ago
    Is job obstruction illegal in Canada?
    - kahnpro 10y ago
      It's specifically illegal to obstruct the work of customs officers, and it's what they were charging someone with who refused to give up his phone password. That guy ended up pleading out the day before his trial.
- pigeons 10y ago

perseusprime11 10y ago

You are missing out on Hawaii and Alaska.

mercurysmessage 10y ago
Can always visit NWT, or BC.

WildUtah 10y ago

There is one flight from Latin America to east Asia. Aeromexico flies from Mexico City to Tokyo and Shanghai alternately with their 787s. (ANA is adding a NRT-MEX flight this winter also.) But there are many, many connecting flights through DFW, Houston, LAX, and SFO. The direct flight costs upwards of $500 more, often a 60% or higher premium. That's the value of avoiding transit through the USA and the visa and CIS procedures involved. (Actually, the first $100 could be the usual price for a direct flight over a connection, but the same $500+ price increment seems to apply to connecting flights.) Aeromexico is not known for its excellent seats, service, or food (though they're fine as airlines go). It's all about avoiding US officials.

extra88 10y ago
> one flight from Latin America to east Asia Are the countries on the continent of South America not generally considered a part of Latin America? Because there are other options from Santiago, Sao Paolo, Rio, etc. to Tokyo. Some of the options are on Air Canada, with a stop in Toronto which avoids U.S. airports but presumably not U.S. airspace so there may still be some additional scrutiny at departure. You don't actually have to go all the way to a South American city, Panama City has Air Canada flights to Tokyo. It looks like the other carriers (Emirates, KLM, Turkish Airlines) have stops in a South American city first. The Air Canada flights aren't much more expensive but the European & Asian-based carriers are much more expensive than the flights with stops in the U.S.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  Are the countries on the continent of South America not generally considered a part of Latin America? Technically, every country in South America is considered a part of Latin America except British Guyana, Suriname, and France. Not including islands like the Malvinas or the ABC islands, of course. --- I should have specified one single flight. Of course you can fly to Dubai from São Paulo and then to Seoul or to Sydney from Santiago and then on to Peking. But direct flights are very limited.
  - dpark 10y ago