4 ms·

And for people who are not US citizens, the solution is pretty simple too: Don't travel to the US.

by ojii 10y ago

EmielMols 10y ago
This. If travel is avoidable or exchangeable for another destination, just don't go to the states. As a EU citizen that visited Iran last year I'm no longer eligible for ESTA (visaless entry) and that - combined with these horrific border control policies - honestly made the threshold for me to visit so high, I'll probably never visit again.
- lb1lf 10y ago
  > As a EU citizen that visited Iran last year I'm no longer eligible for ESTA (visaless entry) and that - combined with these horrific border control policies - honestly made the threshold for me to visit so high, I'll probably never visit again. -My work takes me to most places where there are - or suspected to be - hydrocarbons to be found. When visiting Iran a couple of years ago, the immigration officer leafed through my passport and burst out laughing halfway through. Obviously, I got somewhat concerned - but upon looking up and seeing my worried face, he handed me my passport back and with a chuckle suggested that if he could offer a bit of professional advice, it was that my passport read like an appplication to go to Guantanamo - and I had better get a new one before attempting to visit the US again... (Prior to Iran, I'd been to places like Libya, Algeria, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Indonesia and Uzbekistan.)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
b3lvedere 10y ago
Or just don't bring any electronic devices with you on the travel.
- socket0 10y ago
  That's likely to be a red flag and used against you. Remember, as a non-US citizen, border guards don't have to prove you're guilty of anything. Any suspicion, no matter how trivial or unreasonable, and you have to be able to convincingly prove your own innocence. No electronic devices will probably simply result in them asking for the passwords to your accounts on Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc.
  - b3lvedere 10y ago
    Then all bets are off, i guess. How am i suppose to prove i have no Facebook account? I really do not have a Facebook account. :)
    - socket0 10y ago
      If they're really interested, they'll probably just Google you. Or use something they purchased for tens of millions of dollars, that simply performs a Google search. If you're an older person, and have no online footprint, they probably wouldn't have stopped you in the first place. If you're young, and have no online footprint, that would be pretty suspicious.
Beltiras 10y ago
I might be forced to in the fall. There's a conference within my industry held in San Fransisco in the fall. There really is no substitute elsewhere within a reasonable timeframe. I plan to have no devices with me on the flight. I'll buy a cheap Android and a burner SIM. Before flying home I'll toss the phone. "Give me liberty or give me death" has been subverted into "Give me security and I'll give you my freedom".
- tajen 10y ago
  It's all up to you. But I personally chose not to go to US conferences because of the TSA. The risk of being jailed is real: If you chuckle while they ask questions then lose your temper because he's not happy and you lack sleep; If you have a false name on Facebook (Are you lying about your identity to any US company?); If you know the wrong person; If you've watched underage porn (knowing that even with above-age porn, you don't have any of the actors' ID card to prove it); If a person claims you've harassed her at the conference... Many reasons for your life to become miserable. The idea of risking jail and sponsoring these rules against aliens far outweighs the advantage of going to a conference, at least for me. Surprise: This year, the main conference in my domain, is organized in Vienna (CH) instead of SF!
  - Beltiras 10y ago
    Lucky you. My favourite conferences are held in Amsterdam and London. I much prefer those to US ones of course.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - jellicle 10y ago
    Yeah, the U.S. throws people in jail because women claim they were harassed at conferences all the time. The risk is real!
    - tajen 10y ago
      In USA harassment doesn't have to be proven for action to be taken. Look at the former GitHub and FoxNews CEOs, or Adria Richard's targets at PyCon, or Douglas Crockford at Nodevember: Nothing was ever reviewed by a judge, it's all just claims. 5 cases from the top of my mind. 2 other ones in personal acquaintances.
Buge 10y ago
The US isn't the only country that does this. Canada does it too, in fact recently a guy was facing 1 year in jail for not giving up his password. At least you don't face jail time in the US. New Zealand does it as well.
- paulajohnson 10y ago
  Thats the second time you've posted this. How about pointing at some evidence?
  - angry_octet 10y ago
    Buge has written this several times in the last two weeks without supporting evidence.
    - pigeons 10y ago
      http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-powers-of-border-agents-and-police-differ-1.2983841 http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-p...
      - angry_octet 10y ago
        Don't suppose you want to give more information on your personal experience? When did they last ask for your passwords? Did they give a reason?
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    not parent, but this was posted elsewhere http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171475 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti...
  - Buge 10y ago
    I'm posting multiple times because other people keep posting that the US laws stand out as bad compared to other countries. If you google canada border password you find this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-powers-of-border-agents-and-police-differ-1.2983841 http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-p... Here's a story about New Zealand asking for passwords: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11388728 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti...

And for people who are not US citizens, the solution is pretty simple too: Don't travel to the US.

by ojii 10y ago

And for people who are not US citizens, the solution is pretty simple too: Don't travel to the US.

This. If travel is avoidable or exchangeable for another destination, just don't go to the states. As a EU citizen that visited Iran last year I'm no longer eligible for ESTA (visaless entry) and that - combined with these horrific border control policies - honestly made the threshold for me to visit so high, I'll probably never visit again.

lb1lf 10y ago
> As a EU citizen that visited Iran last year I'm no longer eligible for ESTA (visaless entry) and that - combined with these horrific border control policies - honestly made the threshold for me to visit so high, I'll probably never visit again. -My work takes me to most places where there are - or suspected to be - hydrocarbons to be found. When visiting Iran a couple of years ago, the immigration officer leafed through my passport and burst out laughing halfway through. Obviously, I got somewhat concerned - but upon looking up and seeing my worried face, he handed me my passport back and with a chuckle suggested that if he could offer a bit of professional advice, it was that my passport read like an appplication to go to Guantanamo - and I had better get a new one before attempting to visit the US again... (Prior to Iran, I'd been to places like Libya, Algeria, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Indonesia and Uzbekistan.)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

b3lvedere 10y ago

Or just don't bring any electronic devices with you on the travel.

socket0 10y ago
That's likely to be a red flag and used against you. Remember, as a non-US citizen, border guards don't have to prove you're guilty of anything. Any suspicion, no matter how trivial or unreasonable, and you have to be able to convincingly prove your own innocence. No electronic devices will probably simply result in them asking for the passwords to your accounts on Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc.
- b3lvedere 10y ago
  Then all bets are off, i guess. How am i suppose to prove i have no Facebook account? I really do not have a Facebook account. :)
  - socket0 10y ago
    If they're really interested, they'll probably just Google you. Or use something they purchased for tens of millions of dollars, that simply performs a Google search. If you're an older person, and have no online footprint, they probably wouldn't have stopped you in the first place. If you're young, and have no online footprint, that would be pretty suspicious.

Beltiras 10y ago

I might be forced to in the fall. There's a conference within my industry held in San Fransisco in the fall. There really is no substitute elsewhere within a reasonable timeframe. I plan to have no devices with me on the flight. I'll buy a cheap Android and a burner SIM. Before flying home I'll toss the phone. "Give me liberty or give me death" has been subverted into "Give me security and I'll give you my freedom".

tajen 10y ago
It's all up to you. But I personally chose not to go to US conferences because of the TSA. The risk of being jailed is real: If you chuckle while they ask questions then lose your temper because he's not happy and you lack sleep; If you have a false name on Facebook (Are you lying about your identity to any US company?); If you know the wrong person; If you've watched underage porn (knowing that even with above-age porn, you don't have any of the actors' ID card to prove it); If a person claims you've harassed her at the conference... Many reasons for your life to become miserable. The idea of risking jail and sponsoring these rules against aliens far outweighs the advantage of going to a conference, at least for me. Surprise: This year, the main conference in my domain, is organized in Vienna (CH) instead of SF!
- Beltiras 10y ago
  Lucky you. My favourite conferences are held in Amsterdam and London. I much prefer those to US ones of course.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jellicle 10y ago
  Yeah, the U.S. throws people in jail because women claim they were harassed at conferences all the time. The risk is real!
  - tajen 10y ago
    In USA harassment doesn't have to be proven for action to be taken. Look at the former GitHub and FoxNews CEOs, or Adria Richard's targets at PyCon, or Douglas Crockford at Nodevember: Nothing was ever reviewed by a judge, it's all just claims. 5 cases from the top of my mind. 2 other ones in personal acquaintances.

Buge 10y ago

The US isn't the only country that does this. Canada does it too, in fact recently a guy was facing 1 year in jail for not giving up his password. At least you don't face jail time in the US. New Zealand does it as well.

paulajohnson 10y ago
Thats the second time you've posted this. How about pointing at some evidence?
- angry_octet 10y ago
  Buge has written this several times in the last two weeks without supporting evidence.
  - pigeons 10y ago
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-powers-of-border-agents-and-police-differ-1.2983841 http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-p...
    - angry_octet 10y ago
      Don't suppose you want to give more information on your personal experience? When did they last ask for your passwords? Did they give a reason?
- lacampbell 10y ago
  not parent, but this was posted elsewhere http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171475 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti...
- Buge 10y ago
  I'm posting multiple times because other people keep posting that the US laws stand out as bad compared to other countries. If you google canada border password you find this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-powers-of-border-agents-and-police-differ-1.2983841 http://www.cbc.ca/news/alain-philippon-phone-password-case-p... Here's a story about New Zealand asking for passwords: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11388728 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti...