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> outrage will be generated and justice will be served. Trump is the personification of the outrage over illegal immigration, crime, bad trade deals, and the N

by jquery 10y ago

> outrage will be generated and justice will be served. Trump is the personification of the outrage over illegal immigration, crime, bad trade deals, and the Neocon (globalist) wing of the Republican party. > liberal Americans trusted the system enough to stop looking to see how it was being used Umm, what? For over a year, liberal Americans were aghast at the rise of Literally Hitler and made no bones about sharing their opinion on the matter.

vinceguidry 10y ago
> Trump is the personification of the outrage over illegal immigration, crime, bad trade deals, and the Neocon (globalist) wing of the Republican party. Exactly, it's the system working for the other side of the country. They didn't have nearly as good of a grassroots outreach mechanism, they finally built one. The two sides cannot agree on what justice means. That's ultimately a national question and so it had to be settled in the election. It's the Republicans now that get to decide what justice means, and liberals get to lick their wounds and retrench. The direction the world is moving in is liberalism. So this can only be a minor setback. > Umm, what? For over a year, liberal Americans were aghast at the rise of Literally Hitler and made no bones about sharing their opinion on the matter. Right, they pressed the outrage button thinking it was going to fix the problem, like it usually does. It didn't because Trump outmaneuvered them.
- marknutter 10y ago
  I'm curious as to why you think the world is moving towards liberalism.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    Ultimately it's because of the Internet. Sharing of ideas, remixing them, iterating on them, that's all the province of liberalism. Holding on to tradition, resisting modernization, that's conservatism. Liberalism is the rising tide raising all boats. It's always happening, everywhere, behind the scenes, in people's minds. Even the most conservative person has liberal ideas. Liberalism is imperative, conservatism only impairs. You can have individuals, groups, communities, industries, cities, provinces, countries, even whole blocs of countries espousing conservatism, but the natural trend is towards idea evolution and that's liberalism. It might take a long, circuitous route to get there, but when you take the totality of the whole world, and the logic of ideation, that's where it's going.
    - pault 10y ago
      > the rising tide raising all boats. FYI, usually this rhetoric is used by rich people when they are trying to screw you.
      - vinceguidry 10y ago
        Lol, in my defense it's a more of a philosophical point than an economic or political one.
    - RyanZAG 10y ago
      So Liberalism is good and improves things, and therefore everyone will choose it? Assuming the first part is true, just becomes something is better does not mean it will be chosen, so I don't think that argument works.
      - vinceguidry 10y ago
        Well, no, I'm talking about how things evolve. There's this big myth in history about technological, economic and social decline. That it's been up and down for 2000 years, fits and starts. It's not the case, things slowly and continuously evolve, you just only notice it happening in fits and starts. Also the mind is designed to focus on negative things, so we assign more weight to the negative than we would if we were being more rational.
        RyanZAG 10y ago
        How do you explain the fall of Athens and Rome, and the very long centuries of dark ages in Europe and West Asia?
        vinceguidry 10y ago
        The dark ages are a myth. This is becoming more accepted amongst historians. It's an artifact of our imaginations, not a valid narrative. Athens and Rome are only two of countless agrarian kingdoms / empires of the day. When Rome fell, the rest of Europe mostly just went on without imperial control. More wars were fought but warfare of the day was exceedingly resource-constrained and not like the total wars we see today. Kingdoms and empires rose and fall all the time, we just focus on those two because their culture survived while the other ones' didn't. The terminology "dark ages" more refers to the loss of Christian leadership than it does of technological or economic loss. Christians love to frame things apocalyptically and that's what's responsible for the common pejorative view of that time period. A more valid comparison would be the Napoleanic wars, but there too, you can see that really the wars were only possible because economic advancement allowed nations much more resources to devote to war. Europe had to learn how to civilize warfare three times. Each time happened after massive economic advancements.

by jquery 10y ago

vinceguidry 10y ago

> Trump is the personification of the outrage over illegal immigration, crime, bad trade deals, and the Neocon (globalist) wing of the Republican party. Exactly, it's the system working for the other side of the country. They didn't have nearly as good of a grassroots outreach mechanism, they finally built one. The two sides cannot agree on what justice means. That's ultimately a national question and so it had to be settled in the election. It's the Republicans now that get to decide what justice means, and liberals get to lick their wounds and retrench. The direction the world is moving in is liberalism. So this can only be a minor setback. > Umm, what? For over a year, liberal Americans were aghast at the rise of Literally Hitler and made no bones about sharing their opinion on the matter. Right, they pressed the outrage button thinking it was going to fix the problem, like it usually does. It didn't because Trump outmaneuvered them.

marknutter 10y ago
I'm curious as to why you think the world is moving towards liberalism.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  Ultimately it's because of the Internet. Sharing of ideas, remixing them, iterating on them, that's all the province of liberalism. Holding on to tradition, resisting modernization, that's conservatism. Liberalism is the rising tide raising all boats. It's always happening, everywhere, behind the scenes, in people's minds. Even the most conservative person has liberal ideas. Liberalism is imperative, conservatism only impairs. You can have individuals, groups, communities, industries, cities, provinces, countries, even whole blocs of countries espousing conservatism, but the natural trend is towards idea evolution and that's liberalism. It might take a long, circuitous route to get there, but when you take the totality of the whole world, and the logic of ideation, that's where it's going.
  - pault 10y ago
    > the rising tide raising all boats. FYI, usually this rhetoric is used by rich people when they are trying to screw you.
    - vinceguidry 10y ago
      Lol, in my defense it's a more of a philosophical point than an economic or political one.
  - RyanZAG 10y ago
    So Liberalism is good and improves things, and therefore everyone will choose it? Assuming the first part is true, just becomes something is better does not mean it will be chosen, so I don't think that argument works.
    - vinceguidry 10y ago
      Well, no, I'm talking about how things evolve. There's this big myth in history about technological, economic and social decline. That it's been up and down for 2000 years, fits and starts. It's not the case, things slowly and continuously evolve, you just only notice it happening in fits and starts. Also the mind is designed to focus on negative things, so we assign more weight to the negative than we would if we were being more rational.
      - RyanZAG 10y ago
        How do you explain the fall of Athens and Rome, and the very long centuries of dark ages in Europe and West Asia?
        vinceguidry 10y ago
        The dark ages are a myth. This is becoming more accepted amongst historians. It's an artifact of our imaginations, not a valid narrative. Athens and Rome are only two of countless agrarian kingdoms / empires of the day. When Rome fell, the rest of Europe mostly just went on without imperial control. More wars were fought but warfare of the day was exceedingly resource-constrained and not like the total wars we see today. Kingdoms and empires rose and fall all the time, we just focus on those two because their culture survived while the other ones' didn't. The terminology "dark ages" more refers to the loss of Christian leadership than it does of technological or economic loss. Christians love to frame things apocalyptically and that's what's responsible for the common pejorative view of that time period. A more valid comparison would be the Napoleanic wars, but there too, you can see that really the wars were only possible because economic advancement allowed nations much more resources to devote to war. Europe had to learn how to civilize warfare three times. Each time happened after massive economic advancements.