3 ms·

The faces change, but the game stays the same. That's the salient point here IMO. Why is that? Who is behind it?

everythingspun 10y ago
The DHS under the direction of the President. Are you suggesting that the US needs looser border controls and screening?
- fictioncircle 10y ago
  It needs more competent screening. Good luck getting that when all they do is grab low hanging fruit from publicly available social media. Anyone who is truly a problem will use a burner and spend 10 minutes creating fake social media accounts that are harmless.
- kalleboo 10y ago
  The US has very inconsistent border controls and screening. On one hand, people arriving from wealthy countries at airports get hassled, on the other hand, there isn't any exit border control (I hear that's changing). So they don't even know who left or not. Sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants exist. Employers don't need to verify identity. None of it is really coherent.
  - jessriedel 10y ago
    > there isn't any exit border control There is, but it's done electronically by monitoring passenger records. It's very difficult to exit the US without creating a paper trail, which is vacuum up, so the DHS definitely has info (albeit noisy) when aliens don't leave. https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-not-have-immigration-control-while-departing https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-not-have-immigration-c... One reason not to interview people when they are leaving is philosophical, or slippery slope, depending on your political persuasion. Exit restrictions are obviously very disturbing, being classic precursors to fascism/dictatorships, and generally immoral. (Yes, there are cases where people commit crimes or otherwise shirk duties and the state has a justification for preventing their departure, but these are relatively rare.)
- macintux 10y ago
  > Are you suggesting that the US needs looser border controls and screening? I would suggest that, yes. If a gay man wishes to come to the US to prostitute himself, I think that's a fair trade-off for not forcing everyone to bend over for the digital equivalent of a rectal exam.
  - everythingspun 10y ago
    These procedures were put in place to prevent terrorism. You're OK with human trafficking, but are you OK with terrorism? My point is that some people are worked up about what you equate to a "rectal exam," but don't you think there's good reason for these procedures? If not, how would you prevent terrorists from entering? That is, what if your male prostitute is a terrorist?
    - macintux 10y ago
      "Won't someone think of the children?!" There are terrorists who slip into the country. There are terrorists who are born here. Most school mass shootings are white American males. Why don't we put all of them into detention cells and demand their passwords? Arbitrarily violating the privacy of non-citizens makes it easier to do so to citizens, and also makes it more likely it'll be done to US citizens when they travel abroad. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that bad people will do bad things.

The DHS under the direction of the President. Are you suggesting that the US needs looser border controls and screening?

fictioncircle 10y ago
It needs more competent screening. Good luck getting that when all they do is grab low hanging fruit from publicly available social media. Anyone who is truly a problem will use a burner and spend 10 minutes creating fake social media accounts that are harmless.
kalleboo 10y ago
The US has very inconsistent border controls and screening. On one hand, people arriving from wealthy countries at airports get hassled, on the other hand, there isn't any exit border control (I hear that's changing). So they don't even know who left or not. Sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants exist. Employers don't need to verify identity. None of it is really coherent.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  > there isn't any exit border control There is, but it's done electronically by monitoring passenger records. It's very difficult to exit the US without creating a paper trail, which is vacuum up, so the DHS definitely has info (albeit noisy) when aliens don't leave. https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-not-have-immigration-control-while-departing https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-not-have-immigration-c... One reason not to interview people when they are leaving is philosophical, or slippery slope, depending on your political persuasion. Exit restrictions are obviously very disturbing, being classic precursors to fascism/dictatorships, and generally immoral. (Yes, there are cases where people commit crimes or otherwise shirk duties and the state has a justification for preventing their departure, but these are relatively rare.)
macintux 10y ago
> Are you suggesting that the US needs looser border controls and screening? I would suggest that, yes. If a gay man wishes to come to the US to prostitute himself, I think that's a fair trade-off for not forcing everyone to bend over for the digital equivalent of a rectal exam.
- everythingspun 10y ago
  These procedures were put in place to prevent terrorism. You're OK with human trafficking, but are you OK with terrorism? My point is that some people are worked up about what you equate to a "rectal exam," but don't you think there's good reason for these procedures? If not, how would you prevent terrorists from entering? That is, what if your male prostitute is a terrorist?
  - macintux 10y ago
    "Won't someone think of the children?!" There are terrorists who slip into the country. There are terrorists who are born here. Most school mass shootings are white American males. Why don't we put all of them into detention cells and demand their passwords? Arbitrarily violating the privacy of non-citizens makes it easier to do so to citizens, and also makes it more likely it'll be done to US citizens when they travel abroad. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that bad people will do bad things.