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> So that's the real issue, and not inability of Linux itself to address common use cases of non technical users. Because Linux can address them today. I think

> So that's the real issue, and not inability of Linux itself to address common use cases of non technical users. Because Linux can address them today. I think that's a lot truer than it was 15 years ago (although there hasn't been much improvement since 10 years ago), but it's still less true than is the case for Windows or Mac, which themselves are tricky for the inexpert user. There's a reason Dell markets their Linux laptop as the "developer edition" and not the "Linux edition" or "Ubuntu edition" or whatever. As discussed elsewhere here, OEMs who've sold Linux PCs get many returns, and find their customer support lines (very expensively) jammed with buyers completely clueless about how to accomplish any simple tasks with Linux. And, even if people who've never used a computer before would find Linux as easy to learn as Windows or MacOS (IMO it's in the same ballpark but still behind), most people have used computers, and have already learned how to accomplish basic tasks on one of the Big 2 desktop OSes. With Linux they need to relearn all that from scratch (and for that specific dialect). People have only so much free time, and that's a big time commitment for them, with a big opportunity cost. When MS had their Windows 8 debacle (making their users have to relearn how to accomplish basic tasks), IIRC, Macs increased in market share, but the Linux market share didn't move (or at least it's relative improvement was worse than Mac). And then Windows 10 gained some of the market share 8 lost, at the expense of both Mac and Linux. My interpretation of those data is that they suggest Linux is harder for new mass-market users to learn than MacOS or traditional Windows. > Such users don't roll dice to decide what hardware to install on (if they are smart to install it on their own). They do research, get parts that work well with Linux, and then install it. Without doing research - well, anything can happen. Sure, but now we're talking about experts again. Edit: > OK, for a test (KDE Plasma 5.8.4)… I don't know about for KDE, but Gnome and Unity display this (http://oi62.tinypic.com/kncl4.jpg http://oi62.tinypic.com/kncl4.jpg) reasonable modal if it can deduce the network's security method, and this (https://hub.acadiau.ca/TDPortal/Shared/ImageViewer.ashx?fileName=fa0a2ec2-53d1-4e3b-bb58-2235d35145c0.png https://hub.acadiau.ca/TDPortal/Shared/ImageViewer.ashx?file...) very unreasonable (for a layman) modal if it can't.

shmerl 10y ago
> most people have used computers, and have already learned how to accomplish basic tasks on one of the Big 2 desktop OSes. This comes down to MS and Apple trying to dominate the education system. IMHO schools could teach Linux from the start, and a major part of this issue would be gone already. Closed incumbents fear that, and provide "incentives" for schools, to make sure their lock-in remains unchallenged. > There's a reason Dell markets their Linux laptop as the "developer edition" and not the "Linux edition" or "Ubuntu edition" or whatever. There is too much inertia there. Since Dell had troubles in the past, they translate it into present. They should just start anew and offer Linux on all their models. > very unreasonable (for a layman) modal if it can't. If something can't deduce security method, what do you expect it to ask? Particular details of the UI adjust to selected security method (at least in KDE manual configuration). I.e. I find it completely reasonable, and I doubt Windows or any other OS can fare better if automatic configuration fails.
- smitherfield 10y ago
  > There is too much inertia there. Since Dell had troubles in the past, they translate it into present. They should just start anew and offer Linux on all their models. If I were a PC OEM I'd be in wait-and-see mode for Google's new OS, which may or may not be Android-for-the-desktop. > If something can't deduce security method, what do you expect it to ask? Particular details of the UI adjust to selected security method (at least in KDE manual configuration). I.e. I find it completely reasonable, and I doubt Windows or any other OS can fare better if automatic configuration fails. It should guess the possible security method(s) based on the entered password, and if that fails display the more complex modal, but with the lesser-used fields behind an "advanced" button.
  - shmerl 10y ago
    Personally I'd be pretty upset about Android for the desktop. Ironically, while Android is using Linux kernel, it's also using completely incompatible userland from the rest of the Linux world, starting from its own libc. This creates a major mess and lack of drivers on mobile for normal Linux distros that use glibc, Wayland and etc. and need for such hacks as libhybris to work around that mess. I really don't wish the same sick situation to spill out to desktop Linux. > It should guess the possible security method(s) based on the entered password I'm not sure it's a good idea security wise. I suspect, it might inadvertently expose your password.
  - flukus 10y ago
    > If I were a PC OEM I'd be in wait-and-see mode for Google's new OS, which may or may not be Android-for-the-desktop. I'd be investing in linux in case google and MS go the nexus/surface/mac route and cut third parties out of the equation. Kind of like what samsung is doing with tizen.

shmerl 10y ago

> most people have used computers, and have already learned how to accomplish basic tasks on one of the Big 2 desktop OSes. This comes down to MS and Apple trying to dominate the education system. IMHO schools could teach Linux from the start, and a major part of this issue would be gone already. Closed incumbents fear that, and provide "incentives" for schools, to make sure their lock-in remains unchallenged. > There's a reason Dell markets their Linux laptop as the "developer edition" and not the "Linux edition" or "Ubuntu edition" or whatever. There is too much inertia there. Since Dell had troubles in the past, they translate it into present. They should just start anew and offer Linux on all their models. > very unreasonable (for a layman) modal if it can't. If something can't deduce security method, what do you expect it to ask? Particular details of the UI adjust to selected security method (at least in KDE manual configuration). I.e. I find it completely reasonable, and I doubt Windows or any other OS can fare better if automatic configuration fails.

smitherfield 10y ago
> There is too much inertia there. Since Dell had troubles in the past, they translate it into present. They should just start anew and offer Linux on all their models. If I were a PC OEM I'd be in wait-and-see mode for Google's new OS, which may or may not be Android-for-the-desktop. > If something can't deduce security method, what do you expect it to ask? Particular details of the UI adjust to selected security method (at least in KDE manual configuration). I.e. I find it completely reasonable, and I doubt Windows or any other OS can fare better if automatic configuration fails. It should guess the possible security method(s) based on the entered password, and if that fails display the more complex modal, but with the lesser-used fields behind an "advanced" button.
- shmerl 10y ago
  Personally I'd be pretty upset about Android for the desktop. Ironically, while Android is using Linux kernel, it's also using completely incompatible userland from the rest of the Linux world, starting from its own libc. This creates a major mess and lack of drivers on mobile for normal Linux distros that use glibc, Wayland and etc. and need for such hacks as libhybris to work around that mess. I really don't wish the same sick situation to spill out to desktop Linux. > It should guess the possible security method(s) based on the entered password I'm not sure it's a good idea security wise. I suspect, it might inadvertently expose your password.
- flukus 10y ago
  > If I were a PC OEM I'd be in wait-and-see mode for Google's new OS, which may or may not be Android-for-the-desktop. I'd be investing in linux in case google and MS go the nexus/surface/mac route and cut third parties out of the equation. Kind of like what samsung is doing with tizen.