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I'm an avid Instacart user, and I refuse to pay the service fee, nor the tip. Companies need to pay the drivers fair wages, and charge the customers enough to

I'm an avid Instacart user, and I refuse to pay the service fee, nor the tip. Companies need to pay the drivers fair wages, and charge the customers enough to do so. Don't push that responsibility to the customer. Also, the service fee is perfect example of a Dark Pattern[1]. The actual service fee option (which is pre-selected at 10%) is hidden below the fold in the iPad app (and iOS?) checkout widgets. You have to scroll to see it, but it's aligned just perfectly, and with a hidden scrollbar, to hide the additional options. If you're not looking closely at the final cart total you'll never notice the extra 10% charge. [1] https://darkpatterns.org/ https://darkpatterns.org/

saretired 10y ago
Of course you have the right not to tip, it's optional after all, but many people do choose to give tips, and then the question is whether part of the tip is being skimmed off by Instacart. Restaurants have paid large fines under the Fair Labor Standards Act for tip skimming; I have no idea if FLSA applies here, but if a consumer chooses to tip, s/he has a reasonable expectation that the money will be going to the person providing the service and not to the person's employer.
grandalf 10y ago
I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't tip and tries to avoid the service fee. The problem is that often most of the desirable delivery times disappear unless you've opted to pay the fee. I agree these are dark patterns. Better to just keep the transaction obvious and clean and leave out tip shaming of any kind.
woogiewonka 10y ago
Totally agree.
timcederman 10y ago
Yeah, I'd prefer to not pay the service fee, or the tip, but realistically by not doing so you're screwing the delivery folks, who get deliberately underpaid by companies like Instacart. If there was an organized effort, and it was actually sending a message, then great, let's all do it! But really all you're doing is stiffing some poor underpaid delivery person.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  True, but if more people would do it, no one would start working for them in the first place and they would be forced to raise the salaries.
  - sidlls 10y ago
    That isn't how it works. The folks talking these "gig economy" jobs do it because they don't see other options being viable. They aren't casual upper-middle-class folks with reasonable incomes looking to fill their idle hours with side-work doing grocery shopping. The presence or absence of tips may influence some, but not all, and I'd speculate not the majority.
- jasonpeacock 10y ago
  Where I live (Seattle) we've passed minimum wage law increases ($15, on a 7yr schedule) that has already resulted in many restaurants adding an automatic & non-optional 20% gratuity to checks, where the fine print says it will be shared between front & back staff. So yes, there's an organized effort and it's making a (slow) difference in shifting the culture of companies under-paying their employees and expecting customers to make up the difference.
  - inimino 10y ago
    How does that work? It seems like raising the minimum wage would make it less necessary for restaurants to add a gratuity, not more.
    - alex8022 10y ago
      The gratuities are usually counted towards the minimum wage, i.e. Hourly wage: 5$/hr, Gratuities: 10$/hr.
      - inimino 10y ago
        I see, thanks. In that case the customer sees the gratuity on the bill and then presumably doesn't feel the need to tip? So if I understand correctly this is kind of a way to run a no-tipping restaurant located in a place where tipping is part of the culture.
harryh 10y ago
Do you also not tip at restaurants? Cultural norms are what they are. Just because you don't like them isn't a good reason to screw over working people.
- baby 10y ago
  Always tip a fixed 5$ if you get a good service, why tipping if you don't get a good service though?
  - harryh 10y ago
    Cultural norms in the US are different from those where you grew up. Service employees earn a much greater percentage of their income from tips here than they do there.
    - TheOneTrueKyle 10y ago
      This mentality is most likely why I usually never tip. There are people out there that honestly think this is normal behavior. Hey your experience was terrible, but have this $5 your don't deserve. I live in the US and only tip when service is good.
      - harryh 10y ago
        You are, for all intents and purposes, stealing from people poorer than you. The default assumption is that customers will tip at least a reasonable amount for all service. If you aren't going to do that you need to announce your intentions in advance. Whenever you go to a restaurant just let the hostess know your plans. That way you won't be deceiving people who are serving you.
        TheOneTrueKyle 10y ago
        You have a unique perspective on this situation. I don't have to do shit. I want food, I get food. Not my fault you create a barrier between me and food. Regardless, I don't go to restaurants because of this.

saretired 10y ago

Of course you have the right not to tip, it's optional after all, but many people do choose to give tips, and then the question is whether part of the tip is being skimmed off by Instacart. Restaurants have paid large fines under the Fair Labor Standards Act for tip skimming; I have no idea if FLSA applies here, but if a consumer chooses to tip, s/he has a reasonable expectation that the money will be going to the person providing the service and not to the person's employer.

grandalf 10y ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't tip and tries to avoid the service fee. The problem is that often most of the desirable delivery times disappear unless you've opted to pay the fee. I agree these are dark patterns. Better to just keep the transaction obvious and clean and leave out tip shaming of any kind.

woogiewonka 10y ago

Totally agree.

timcederman 10y ago

Yeah, I'd prefer to not pay the service fee, or the tip, but realistically by not doing so you're screwing the delivery folks, who get deliberately underpaid by companies like Instacart. If there was an organized effort, and it was actually sending a message, then great, let's all do it! But really all you're doing is stiffing some poor underpaid delivery person.

angry-hacker 10y ago
True, but if more people would do it, no one would start working for them in the first place and they would be forced to raise the salaries.
- sidlls 10y ago
  That isn't how it works. The folks talking these "gig economy" jobs do it because they don't see other options being viable. They aren't casual upper-middle-class folks with reasonable incomes looking to fill their idle hours with side-work doing grocery shopping. The presence or absence of tips may influence some, but not all, and I'd speculate not the majority.
jasonpeacock 10y ago
Where I live (Seattle) we've passed minimum wage law increases ($15, on a 7yr schedule) that has already resulted in many restaurants adding an automatic & non-optional 20% gratuity to checks, where the fine print says it will be shared between front & back staff. So yes, there's an organized effort and it's making a (slow) difference in shifting the culture of companies under-paying their employees and expecting customers to make up the difference.
- inimino 10y ago
  How does that work? It seems like raising the minimum wage would make it less necessary for restaurants to add a gratuity, not more.
  - alex8022 10y ago
    The gratuities are usually counted towards the minimum wage, i.e. Hourly wage: 5$/hr, Gratuities: 10$/hr.
    - inimino 10y ago
      I see, thanks. In that case the customer sees the gratuity on the bill and then presumably doesn't feel the need to tip? So if I understand correctly this is kind of a way to run a no-tipping restaurant located in a place where tipping is part of the culture.

harryh 10y ago

Do you also not tip at restaurants? Cultural norms are what they are. Just because you don't like them isn't a good reason to screw over working people.

baby 10y ago
Always tip a fixed 5$ if you get a good service, why tipping if you don't get a good service though?
- harryh 10y ago
  Cultural norms in the US are different from those where you grew up. Service employees earn a much greater percentage of their income from tips here than they do there.
  - TheOneTrueKyle 10y ago
    This mentality is most likely why I usually never tip. There are people out there that honestly think this is normal behavior. Hey your experience was terrible, but have this $5 your don't deserve. I live in the US and only tip when service is good.
    - harryh 10y ago
      You are, for all intents and purposes, stealing from people poorer than you. The default assumption is that customers will tip at least a reasonable amount for all service. If you aren't going to do that you need to announce your intentions in advance. Whenever you go to a restaurant just let the hostess know your plans. That way you won't be deceiving people who are serving you.
      - TheOneTrueKyle 10y ago
        You have a unique perspective on this situation. I don't have to do shit. I want food, I get food. Not my fault you create a barrier between me and food. Regardless, I don't go to restaurants because of this.