5 ms·

The problem you run into when it does come preinstalled is users are not familiar with it and don't know how to use it. Take this example[0] from years ago whe

The problem you run into when it does come preinstalled is users are not familiar with it and don't know how to use it. Take this example[0] from years ago when Dell had Ubuntu installed on some laptops. This is an example of an average user. For lack of a better words dumb as dirt. If it doesn't work right away and they can't solve it in under 5 minutes they get mad. The article also brings up a relevant often over looked point, you need certain software that only runs on Windows or macOS. Libre Office will export to a Word format but the default is set to odt, expecting average users to know how to change format is pushing it. I've gotten in the habit of just exporting all my documents as PDF's because there's no question that the receiver will be able to read it but that isn't something that goes through the minds of most people I imagine. [0]http://www.wkow.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184&nav=menu1362_8_6 http://www.wkow.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184&nav=menu1362_...

shmerl 10y ago
“Years ago” is not an indicator of things today. I've installed Linux for multiple non tecnical people, and they fared fine.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
smitherfield 10y ago
Very well said. When I see people in here say they installed Linux on their parent's computer, I have to hope Mom and Pop are old Unix hackers, or their kid has a lot of free time. We don't realize just how much non-technical people struggle to do the most basic tasks on their computer. They struggle mightily to so much as connect to a new wireless network or download and run a graphical installer on Windows or Mac. Adding a printer, changing settings or connecting to a Bluetooth device are probably beyond their abilities. My parents are both extremely intelligent, and early adopters of technology who've had PCs since the 80's; every time I see them they've filled their Macs with adware ("No, it's good; it does a cleanup! It's from Amazon!"). To send them an email is to risk it being lost in the flood of hundreds of newsletters they inadvertently subscribed to. I know fellow developers with Macs who run all their apps off of the still-mounted disk image instead of dragging them to the Applications folder. You expect non-technical people to use a package manager? To find the non-free repository, or have the slightest clue what "package manager" or "non-free repository" even means? To hack on the command line? To edit configuration files? I often need to run to the docs and StackExchange for those kind of things, and I'm the guy my (intelligent, competent) team members come to about that stuff. You expect them to find and install drivers? To deal with stuff breaking when they update their distro? To update in the first place? Like the woman in the story, they're likely to give up when they see MS Office isn't available. People in my graduate CS courses claim they can't open .docx files because they don't have MS Word. It's a more-competent-than-average person who even knows about and recognizes file extensions. Think about how painful it is to get your coworkers to so much as try out a new language, library or development tool. How much hand-holding they need. How they whine and complain about the slightest difference, even when the new way is clearly superior. And this is talking about highly-intelligent people above the 99th percentile for knowledge and interest in computers. So yeah, I don't think Linux is really in a state where it's usable (without handholding) by non-developers without lots of time, ability and interest to learn Unix. Even Windows and MacOS are something of a losing struggle. People do better with the more idiot-proof iOS and Android, but I'm still troubleshooting my folks' phones on a regular basis.
- shmerl 10y ago
  Same thing can be said about Windows. It's not anywhere more ready for out of the box use than Linux. I.e. it needs learning, and learning effort can take time, that's true. But the argument that Linux is harder to learn doesn't stand.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Windows made considerable effort to be easy to understand for new users. http://imgur.com/a/gccxP http://imgur.com/a/gccxP Linux for the past few years has been very easy to install and use. But for some time it was hard for most users.
  - smitherfield 10y ago
    The situation with drivers, hardware compatibility, internet configuration, software discovery, installation and availability, OS updates, layman-friendly Google troubleshooting and so forth is far more idiot-proof on Windows than Linux. Most of those are ecosystem and not OS-related, but that doesn't help a person who's not totally clear on what an operating system even is. What's easy for you or I is worlds beyond what's easy for the average Joe or Sally who wants internet, email, MS Office and maybe gaming.
    - shmerl 10y ago
      If we are talking about people who buy pre-assembled computers, hardware compatibility questions are addressed by the manufacturer. I doubt they would be selling hardware that runs Linux, and at the same time has drivers problems. And if we are talking about people who are ready to assemble PCs from parts themselves, they are as well ready to do their research and figure out what works and how well. At the same time, driver situation on Windows can be actually worse than on Linux. Especially if we are talking about manufacturers dropping support for their closed drivers. It often happens, that with Windows the only solution is to upgrade your hardware, while Linux merrily continues working on it for years. I encountered this multiple times, especially with laptops. Not sure what you mean about network configuration woes, Network Manager GUI for example is pretty straightforward and easy to use.

shmerl 10y ago

“Years ago” is not an indicator of things today. I've installed Linux for multiple non tecnical people, and they fared fine.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

smitherfield 10y ago

Very well said. When I see people in here say they installed Linux on their parent's computer, I have to hope Mom and Pop are old Unix hackers, or their kid has a lot of free time. We don't realize just how much non-technical people struggle to do the most basic tasks on their computer. They struggle mightily to so much as connect to a new wireless network or download and run a graphical installer on Windows or Mac. Adding a printer, changing settings or connecting to a Bluetooth device are probably beyond their abilities. My parents are both extremely intelligent, and early adopters of technology who've had PCs since the 80's; every time I see them they've filled their Macs with adware ("No, it's good; it does a cleanup! It's from Amazon!"). To send them an email is to risk it being lost in the flood of hundreds of newsletters they inadvertently subscribed to. I know fellow developers with Macs who run all their apps off of the still-mounted disk image instead of dragging them to the Applications folder. You expect non-technical people to use a package manager? To find the non-free repository, or have the slightest clue what "package manager" or "non-free repository" even means? To hack on the command line? To edit configuration files? I often need to run to the docs and StackExchange for those kind of things, and I'm the guy my (intelligent, competent) team members come to about that stuff. You expect them to find and install drivers? To deal with stuff breaking when they update their distro? To update in the first place? Like the woman in the story, they're likely to give up when they see MS Office isn't available. People in my graduate CS courses claim they can't open .docx files because they don't have MS Word. It's a more-competent-than-average person who even knows about and recognizes file extensions. Think about how painful it is to get your coworkers to so much as try out a new language, library or development tool. How much hand-holding they need. How they whine and complain about the slightest difference, even when the new way is clearly superior. And this is talking about highly-intelligent people above the 99th percentile for knowledge and interest in computers. So yeah, I don't think Linux is really in a state where it's usable (without handholding) by non-developers without lots of time, ability and interest to learn Unix. Even Windows and MacOS are something of a losing struggle. People do better with the more idiot-proof iOS and Android, but I'm still troubleshooting my folks' phones on a regular basis.

shmerl 10y ago
Same thing can be said about Windows. It's not anywhere more ready for out of the box use than Linux. I.e. it needs learning, and learning effort can take time, that's true. But the argument that Linux is harder to learn doesn't stand.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Windows made considerable effort to be easy to understand for new users. http://imgur.com/a/gccxP http://imgur.com/a/gccxP Linux for the past few years has been very easy to install and use. But for some time it was hard for most users.
- smitherfield 10y ago
  The situation with drivers, hardware compatibility, internet configuration, software discovery, installation and availability, OS updates, layman-friendly Google troubleshooting and so forth is far more idiot-proof on Windows than Linux. Most of those are ecosystem and not OS-related, but that doesn't help a person who's not totally clear on what an operating system even is. What's easy for you or I is worlds beyond what's easy for the average Joe or Sally who wants internet, email, MS Office and maybe gaming.
  - shmerl 10y ago
    If we are talking about people who buy pre-assembled computers, hardware compatibility questions are addressed by the manufacturer. I doubt they would be selling hardware that runs Linux, and at the same time has drivers problems. And if we are talking about people who are ready to assemble PCs from parts themselves, they are as well ready to do their research and figure out what works and how well. At the same time, driver situation on Windows can be actually worse than on Linux. Especially if we are talking about manufacturers dropping support for their closed drivers. It often happens, that with Windows the only solution is to upgrade your hardware, while Linux merrily continues working on it for years. I encountered this multiple times, especially with laptops. Not sure what you mean about network configuration woes, Network Manager GUI for example is pretty straightforward and easy to use.