5 ms·

Don't really agree with the claims in the article. I myself and dozen of my friends and colleagues have been trying to get linux as a desktop OS all the way bac

by baxuz 10y ago

Don't really agree with the claims in the article. I myself and dozen of my friends and colleagues have been trying to get linux as a desktop OS all the way back when the Tango / Gnome aesthetics emerged as a counter to the glossy 3d aesthetics of XP and OSX. The thing is... It just didn't work. There wasn't any available software for it. The open-source alternatives such as OpenOffice, Inkscape and Gimp were lacking to put it mildly. Games were out of the question. But that isn't the worst part. The desktop itself, and by extension the OS as a desktop OS didn't work. Getting hardware video acceleration to work was almost impossible. Time to edit xorg.conf again and run the glsl demo. Maybe it won't crash the xserver this time. You want your microphone to work? Time to download and compile some obscure ALSA forks. UTF-8? Here, have some EN-US whether you like it or not. God help you if you have a USB device which isn't a mouse or a keyboard. And then there were the crashes. I still remember typing `startx` regularly as the GUI would crash all the time. I really want linux to succeed as a desktop OS, but I don't see that happening ever.

oliwarner 10y ago
These are some pretty dated critiques to base your "don't see that happening ever" prediction on. A lot has changed in the past 6 years.
- Zancarius 10y ago
  Agreed. I started ~2005 with Gentoo as my desktop (currently using Arch). Most of these complaints are no longer valid. Others (OpenOffice, Gimp) are a matter of taste/needs.
Zancarius 10y ago
I think it's a matter of expectations and needs. I've been using Linux as my primary desktop OS off and on since 2005ish (first Gentoo, now Arch); it's been fine for me, but I suspect my experience is largely different for a variety of reasons--mostly due to needs. However, therein lies the rub: If you use Linux as a desktop environment with the expectation that everything is going to magically Just Work™, there's a greater chance you're going to be unpleasantly surprised. Then again, you might not (again, depending on needs), but if you're using predominantly Windows software and expect to be able to carry that over, it might not happen. I play some Windows games under Wine, and they generally work well, but there's a few that don't (like Guild Wars 2, but it's probably because the game is CPU bound). It happens. Use whatever works for you. As to your specific complaints, it seems to me that most of them are largely outdated by now. OpenOffice/LibreOffice are good enough for the most part (certainly not as polished as MS Office), and the same applies to Inkscape and Gimp (both of which I use under Windows, so there's that). My GeForce GTX 1060 works fine with the NVIDIA kernel drivers; I've not had to edit my xorg.conf file in years (with dual monitors!); audio works fine, yes even using PulseAudio; and UTF-8 is a non-issue (installing the correct fonts does wonders, but make sure to change them in your browser profile!). My webcam works great as well, but I selected it specifically for its Linux compatibility. Same for an ancient HP LaserJet printer. So, I think things have certainly improved--they have since I started using Gentoo. That's not to say you should expect smooth sailing, of course. For my part, I like tinkering with my OS and generally don't mind it when I break something. If that's out of the question and you need something that's going to work out of the box, Linux probably isn't something you should be using in the first place, especially if you have esoteric needs. I won't wax philosophical about "oh, you just need to do X" when certain software is going to work better on Windows, for instance, but having used Linux for my desktop OS as long as I have, I can't complain. I actually grumble more when I have to boot to Windows. ;) However, I have a friend who has a particular penchant for breaking literally everything he touches (coincidentally, he works in QC now). Every time he speculates out loud about trying some random Linux distro, I politely change the subject!
- rini17 10y ago
  And your point is? Having average user, without any esoteric needs, jump over these hoops, is not "probably", but definitely unfeasible. Complaints, such as about Office, aren't and probably won't ever get outdated, all diehard Excel users I know rejected LibreOffice Calc due to incompatibilities and missing features. I know enough C to mess with the kernel, but even I must choose my battles - sometime around kernel 4.0 ACPI support for my otherwise perfectly functional and performant 8y old mainboard broke, freezing on boot. I had to disable ACPI, it means shutting it down manually by power switch. It reminds me every time not to lie to myself "I can't complain" :) Fortunately it's desktop, not laptop.
  - Zancarius 10y ago
    >And your point is? Having average user, without any esoteric needs, jump over these hoops, is not "probably", but definitely unfeasible. Did you read my post or the OP? 1) The OP made claims about specific features not working in Linux. Generally, those complaints aren't true anymore and haven't been for a long time (audio, UTF-8, among other things). I can't remember the last time I had xorg crash or the last time I had to use startx and not my login manager. 2) I acknowledge on a number of points that it's most certainly not something the average user should use. I honestly have no idea how else to express this in a way that is suitable enough to satisfy everyone. I think you're misunderstanding the tone of my original post? >my otherwise perfectly functional and performant 8y old mainboard broke, freezing on boot. I had to disable ACPI, it means shutting it down manually by power switch. It reminds me every time not to lie to myself "I can't complain" :) If it's a hardware problem due to a fault, I'm not sure what you expect...
    - rini17 10y ago
      I guess you have your anecdotal evidence that "Generally, those complaints aren't true anymore..", me and parent poster have ours and different. I can agree audio is now OK, but everything else is as sketchy as ever was. It was _the software ACPI support that broke,_ not hardware. With old kernels it all works. That at least I'd like to expect not broken.
throwawayish 10y ago
XP was released sixteen years ago.

by baxuz 10y ago

oliwarner 10y ago

These are some pretty dated critiques to base your "don't see that happening ever" prediction on. A lot has changed in the past 6 years.

Zancarius 10y ago
Agreed. I started ~2005 with Gentoo as my desktop (currently using Arch). Most of these complaints are no longer valid. Others (OpenOffice, Gimp) are a matter of taste/needs.

Zancarius 10y ago

I think it's a matter of expectations and needs. I've been using Linux as my primary desktop OS off and on since 2005ish (first Gentoo, now Arch); it's been fine for me, but I suspect my experience is largely different for a variety of reasons--mostly due to needs. However, therein lies the rub: If you use Linux as a desktop environment with the expectation that everything is going to magically Just Work™, there's a greater chance you're going to be unpleasantly surprised. Then again, you might not (again, depending on needs), but if you're using predominantly Windows software and expect to be able to carry that over, it might not happen. I play some Windows games under Wine, and they generally work well, but there's a few that don't (like Guild Wars 2, but it's probably because the game is CPU bound). It happens. Use whatever works for you. As to your specific complaints, it seems to me that most of them are largely outdated by now. OpenOffice/LibreOffice are good enough for the most part (certainly not as polished as MS Office), and the same applies to Inkscape and Gimp (both of which I use under Windows, so there's that). My GeForce GTX 1060 works fine with the NVIDIA kernel drivers; I've not had to edit my xorg.conf file in years (with dual monitors!); audio works fine, yes even using PulseAudio; and UTF-8 is a non-issue (installing the correct fonts does wonders, but make sure to change them in your browser profile!). My webcam works great as well, but I selected it specifically for its Linux compatibility. Same for an ancient HP LaserJet printer. So, I think things have certainly improved--they have since I started using Gentoo. That's not to say you should expect smooth sailing, of course. For my part, I like tinkering with my OS and generally don't mind it when I break something. If that's out of the question and you need something that's going to work out of the box, Linux probably isn't something you should be using in the first place, especially if you have esoteric needs. I won't wax philosophical about "oh, you just need to do X" when certain software is going to work better on Windows, for instance, but having used Linux for my desktop OS as long as I have, I can't complain. I actually grumble more when I have to boot to Windows. ;) However, I have a friend who has a particular penchant for breaking literally everything he touches (coincidentally, he works in QC now). Every time he speculates out loud about trying some random Linux distro, I politely change the subject!

rini17 10y ago
And your point is? Having average user, without any esoteric needs, jump over these hoops, is not "probably", but definitely unfeasible. Complaints, such as about Office, aren't and probably won't ever get outdated, all diehard Excel users I know rejected LibreOffice Calc due to incompatibilities and missing features. I know enough C to mess with the kernel, but even I must choose my battles - sometime around kernel 4.0 ACPI support for my otherwise perfectly functional and performant 8y old mainboard broke, freezing on boot. I had to disable ACPI, it means shutting it down manually by power switch. It reminds me every time not to lie to myself "I can't complain" :) Fortunately it's desktop, not laptop.
- Zancarius 10y ago
  >And your point is? Having average user, without any esoteric needs, jump over these hoops, is not "probably", but definitely unfeasible. Did you read my post or the OP? 1) The OP made claims about specific features not working in Linux. Generally, those complaints aren't true anymore and haven't been for a long time (audio, UTF-8, among other things). I can't remember the last time I had xorg crash or the last time I had to use startx and not my login manager. 2) I acknowledge on a number of points that it's most certainly not something the average user should use. I honestly have no idea how else to express this in a way that is suitable enough to satisfy everyone. I think you're misunderstanding the tone of my original post? >my otherwise perfectly functional and performant 8y old mainboard broke, freezing on boot. I had to disable ACPI, it means shutting it down manually by power switch. It reminds me every time not to lie to myself "I can't complain" :) If it's a hardware problem due to a fault, I'm not sure what you expect...
  - rini17 10y ago
    I guess you have your anecdotal evidence that "Generally, those complaints aren't true anymore..", me and parent poster have ours and different. I can agree audio is now OK, but everything else is as sketchy as ever was. It was _the software ACPI support that broke,_ not hardware. With old kernels it all works. That at least I'd like to expect not broken.

throwawayish 10y ago

XP was released sixteen years ago.