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"When we sat down, it was all about the vision and what we wanted to build," Blah blah blah. It's all about them benjamins. Who likes atlassian software? Shitt

• omouse 10y ago
  Atlassian found their niche: enterprise sales. Because the buyer is not the user usually so it's way easier to sell shitty products.
  • Emeb 10y ago
    This is spot on. The users are beccoming more powerful though, so buyers should pay attention.
• paulddraper 10y ago
  "Shitty" is too far. I'd call it "adequate". Atlassian's genius is having lots of adequate enterprise collaboration software under the same brand.
• ptrptr 10y ago
  From my experience Hacker News community dislike post like this but I have to agree, RIP Trello. Atlassian bought 17 startups and for better or worse they're not thriving.
  • tajen 10y ago
    So BitBucket, HipChat, and so on, you say they're not thriving? Bb didn't even have git repos when they sold!
• oblio 10y ago
  Jira doesn't suck. It is extremely complex, especially if there is a (misguided) desire for agile plugins and such, by Jira on its own is quite usable. You must have not used their competitors to consider it crap. Jira's default state in many companies is more likely proof of broken processes. Something which no tool can solve.
  • blowski 10y ago
    If you like lightweight, fast apps then you hate Jira. If you like being able to tweak absolutely every single feature, then you love Jira. It's nice to imagine an app with all the flexibility of Jira and all the speed of Trello, but it's probably a trade-off.
    • paulddraper 10y ago
      > tweak absolutely every single feature Unfortunately, you can't. For example, let's say I want to have a different set of priorities or resolutions for a project. I have to run a whole new JIRA server. Twelve year-old issue with 2,319 votes https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRA-3821 https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRA-3821
      • emmelaich 10y ago
        The problem with software X is that it's far too complex and it doesn't have my favourite feature Y!
        • paulddraper 10y ago
          Or thousands of other people's favorite feature.
          • nickonline 10y ago
            Favourite?
            • rhizome 10y ago
              Ask your parents for a trip to Europe as a graduation present.
      • raverbashing 10y ago
        Resolutions by issue type? Talk about bikeshedding to the extreme Atlassian is right in not addressing this kind of feature request
• Kiro 10y ago
  How is Bitbucket bad?
  • baudehlo 10y ago
    Bitbucket, unlike github, clung to a design of many servers connected to a big disk. GitHub instead went for many servers with their own disk and a distributed storage system. This means that bitbucket ends up being a lot slower in many operations than github. Aside from that, it's fine.
    • iamcreasy 10y ago
      What are those operations that are slow in bitbucket?
• ig1 10y ago
  What makes you think Jira is worse than say BMC Remedy or IBM Rational ? - JIRA is certainly better than most of their direct competitors.
  • pjmlp 10y ago
    Oh the nightmares of using ClearQuest back in early 2000's.
  • zippergz 10y ago
    Remedy is one of the worst software packages I've had the misfortune to work with, so saying something is better than Remedy is damning it with faint praise.....
    • eecc 10y ago
      Ha ha... but under the hood there's some utopia lingering. I've seen its exceptions and I figured it's made of some sort of auto-generated code translation of an Eclipse based think client. Reminds me of the bad old days of round-trip engineering, UML and Corba...
• pjmlp 10y ago
  > Who likes atlassian software? I do, and have been using it since Atlassian was a tiny startup. Don't know any project management software as flexible and powerful, with integration with enterprise source control and bug tracking systems as Jira. I really don't have any reason to suggest anything else.
• eldavido 10y ago
  This is an incredibly short-sighted comment. Two CEOs sit down, culture had better be the #1 thing they discuss before one writes a check to the other for the better part of half a billion dollars. Good M&A adds tons of value by combining two companies who are better together than separate. Bad M&A (Google's acquisition of Nest comes to mind) means fired CEO, delayed/ruined product launches, and incineration of nine-figure amounts of shareholder value. It all comes down to whether the two companies want the same thing. I won't argue that Atlassian software has no rough edges UX-wise, but that isn't the point. The point is that, when one company buys another, they'd better have roughly the same idea of where they want to go, otherwise you may as well fire up an industrial blast furnace fed by shareholder capital.
  • riprowan 10y ago
    This is all 100% true yet still quite naive. Bad M&As happen all the time. Good ones are the exceptions not the norms. "Companies" are groups of people, and their leadership. What the leadership wants very often has nothing to do with the company's long-term future. This is all observable behavior happening all around us.
    • jasode 10y ago
      >Good ones are the exceptions not the norms. Is that really true? Here are lists of acquisitions by Amazon and Google: + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Amazon.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio... + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio... The vast majority of acquisitions are uneventful and added positive value to the acquirer. Maybe you're thinking of high-profile multi-billion dollar failures like Daimler+Chrysler, HP+Compaq, Microsoft+Nokia. It's possible that the amount of negative press those failures receive distorts the perception of the (quiet) successful acquisitions.
      • rhizome 10y ago
        The vast majority of acquisitions are uneventful and added positive value to the acquirer. How many add positive value to the acquired?
• edejong 10y ago
  Personally, I think Trello is pretty crappy. Unlike you, I'll give some examples: - Not usable without browser plugins - Referencing cards from other systems impossible (no stable urls) - Referencing other systems from cards difficult. For example, try referencing a commit in a repo - Not all actions on cards are logged - Referencing cards from within cards in a stable way is impossible (hello web!) - Limited keyboard control - Changing certain things concurrently does not warn user - Only two part hierarchy - The complexity of over engineering processes shows up in a year in both JIRA and Trello. But in Trello you can't blame the program. - Drag and drop frustrations in Firefox - Side scrolling nightmare when pasting long logs because of narrow design of cards - Endless gimmicks - Advertisements in cards for plugins (at least I think it was) I can go on, but I think I've made my point. Could you give specific reasons why you don't like JIRA?
  • tghw 10y ago
    - What are you missing that browser plugins add? - Cards do have stable URLs. Not sure why you think they don't. - A Github url to a commit will link to that URL. Powerups can be used if you want tighter integration. - Very few people actually need this. If you do, then you need a fully auditable system. - Copy paste the card URL. Again, card URLs are stable and Trello will detect that it's a card URL. - There are fairly extensive keyboard shortcuts: https://trello.com/shortcuts https://trello.com/shortcuts - Such as? - Boards -> Lists -> Cards -> Description/Comments/Check Lists/Polls/etc. At least 4 levels. - Is this a prediction?? - Sounds like a Firefox problem. - Are you putting logs in the titles of the cards? - Such as? - Haven't ever seen an ad in a card. It sounds like you set out with the intention of not liking it and found (or made up?) reasons.
    • edejong 10y ago
      - names of tags on cards, card id's for referencing from git commits, smarter use of screen estate. Everyone I work with uses at least a couple of plugins. - Not when you move them from board to board - But that's not linking a commit, that's linking to github. In JIRA I had full integration and even auto linking of commits to issues. You give a repo url and the rest is easy. - I recall (can't test this) that moving a card is not logged. I think that's pretty basic functionality and it helps in asynchronous communication. - card urls are not stable over different boards. - moving cards over columns. - Yes, but I cannot nest cards. Simple divide and conquer strategy will scatter takes over many cards. To-do lists are not sufficient. - seems like a nasty ui decision, dragging with scrolling. - No, in the description. But the pre has no word wrap and the pop-up only takes a quarter of the width of my screen (without browser plugin) - large smilies on cards for example, or whatever these things are. - I'm absolutely sure I saw advertisement in a card. Maybe it was caused by a browser plugin? I've used many task management systems. I understand the appeal of Trello. For me, it is just not sophisticated enough and misses essentials.
• sly010 10y ago
  It's an Australian company publicly traded, so they must be doing something right. The only thing they suffer from is NIH syndrome. I am a happy user of Bitbucket and a sad user of GitHub, so there is that.
  • iamcreasy 10y ago
    Can you elaborate on why you are a sad user of GitHub?
    • sly010 10y ago
      Because I have to pay for private repos and teams however small they are (bitbucket private repos are free). Also because I generally tend to prefer the silver (underdog) candidates like Pepsi, the Falcons or Hillary.
      • notatoad 10y ago
        Didn't GitHub update their pricing a couple months ago to make private repos free too?
        • jlgaddis 10y ago
          From a 10-second look at their website, the answer is no.
      • paublyrne 10y ago
        Github is a pretty decent product. It seems churlish to criticise it on the basis that it comes at a price.
        • sly010 10y ago
          Same applies for Bitbucket.
• bane 10y ago
  Atlassian products are about one step improved from corporate financial management software. Think about the last craptastic time keeping system you've used. They all seem to be terrible in some weird way. For example, the system at my company has unexplained checkboxes everywhere, and for some reason disables copying of charge codes once their entered onto a sheet? Why? Nobody knows, it's probably not a feature, just some nonsense produced by some compatibility requirement for an old browser or something. Who knows. Other fun things: - search doesn't work right to find codes - it won't verify if you can charge to a code until you've tried it - it won't tell you codes have expired when contracts are over - it's a huge process to review old time entries, especially old sheets filed by employees - etc. compared to this, the Atlassian products are at least usable when they're configured correctly. The problem is that they're almost never entirely configured correctly, or they'll somehow mysteriously fall out of correct configuration after months of working just fine. Oh, and this time keeping system is actually a step up from the old one we used to use. I guess what I'm saying is that they aren't state of the art w/r to usability, but they're also not complete bottom of the pile garbage. Trello is also a step or two above the normal Atlassian stuff, but the inability to self host and configure in certain ways also restricted the size of projects you could tackle effectively with Trello. Atlassian's normal project management stuff seems to work best at a scale just beyond Trello. And in that respect is superior.
  • josephjrobison 10y ago
    Definitely see this with Vanguard - great index fund, terrible software as a user.
• sumedh 10y ago
  > Who likes atlassian software? I do, just because you dont like it does not mean others will have the same opinion. If you think you can do a better job you should start your own company.
• gempir 10y ago
  I do. I love it actually. Separately they make good software but using multiple atlassian products together makes it amazing software. Jira, Bitbucket, Confluence, Bamboo all amazing tools
• raverbashing 10y ago
  Crappiest software I used: IBM Atlassian might be not great but it's not sold on golf courses and actually works
• nurettin 10y ago
  My 7th year using it and I have nothing but good things to say about bitbucket (switched after using github for two years)
• krzyk 10y ago
  I have quite the opposite opinion. I really like working with Jira (as opposed to e.g. bugzilla, clearquest). And I really prefer Jira agile plugin to Trello, some PO tried to force Trello on us (developers) but we had to resist for some time, until they stopped pushing it. Trello looks like a sticky notes app and nothing more to me. Not to mention it is not "on-premises" so if a given company cares about security it won't use it. Bitbucket Server (formerly Stash) is also quite nice, but I don't have comparison to GitLab or Github Enterprise, so I don't know what I'm missing.
• hyperman1 10y ago
  I had to manage our corporate JIRA for a few years after the previous admins managed to get it stuck in an impossible configuration. My experience was it worked good enough if you stuck to the defaults. Spent a few weeks ripping out all kinds of weird workflows and started trusting the users instead. The thing was not perfect, but compared to the other stuff we had i'd give it 8/10 (or a B- for you Americans out there) Then a bunch of contractors came in with a paper full of boxes and arrows, titled Enterprise Workflow, and demanded admin access to do everything themselves. One month later stability is down the drain for everyone, and a few of their issues are jailed in a state, unable to go back and forth in the workflow, never to be closed or disappear from their status report. They declared Jira a non-agile, buggy product and bought something different. Our users now hate both products and track issues in excel.