4 ms·

This is one of the first things I've noticed when looking at political discussions. People (correctly) note the abuse of powers in others, but the moment they g

by sgift 10y ago

This is one of the first things I've noticed when looking at political discussions. People (correctly) note the abuse of powers in others, but the moment they get power themselves they see no problem with (ab)using it to attack those who did it before. And then the power relations change again and it starts anew.

hkmurakami 10y ago
Definitely. The tactics used to shame Trump supporters, evangelicals, and the like are the exact same as the ones used to shame and invalidate people of color, women's rights, etc. In the past. It's disheartening, really.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- intended 10y ago
  It's natural. Maybe people haven't seen it in America before, but this happens all the time. Radicalism begets radical responses over enough of a time line. People in this thread keep feeling disheartened or calling out liberals enclaves - but they completely forget that this is only 3 weeks into Trumps presidency. As a candidate he was frightening to liberals, in a way no American presidential candidate has been in a long time. And now he is president. He scares and disturbs people around the world. I can't imagine how liberal groups feel. On top of that he won and is supported by people who argue that hate speech is free speech.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    I don't care how liberal groups feel. I care how they act. And how they are acting is contrary to both liberalism and liberty. (Conservatives are not acting conservatively, either...)
    - intended 10y ago
      If you don't quite care about how people feel, you lose the position to judge how they act. Human actions ultimately find their motivation in emotions, not in rationality. Besides- that's a belief unmoored from reality. There's a fight going on, and one side has been using techniques to dismantle every institution and source of strength of the other. Youll have reached the point that even facts itself are under question. The period of following ideals died a while back. Either liberals learn from the political play book of the conservatives, or they disappear.
- Mithaldu 10y ago
  The frightening part about your post is that you might not even be trolling.
  - sgift 10y ago
    Why is this frightening?
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      Presumably because it's trying to equate San Francisco liberals venting about Trump supporters, with the legal oppression of women and minorities with the full backing of the state. A level of false equivalency that is terrifying for people who are slowly realising that a large number of Trump supporters have lost all touch with reality. "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" -- Voltaire 59% of Trump supporters believe the last president of the United states was not a citizen of the US, and therefore ineligible to be president. 66% believe that Obama is lying about his religion and is secretly a muslim. Put together, that is some real "Protocals of the Elders of Zion" stuff. No wonder they want to ban muslims, they actually believe the country has already been secretly taken over by them. There's multiple bestseller books that claim exactly that. People pushing this conspiracy are all over the Republican establishment and Trump and other public figures drop blatant dog-whistles that just sound like stupidity to normal people, but confirm these paranoid fantasies for believers. Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!".
      - sgift 10y ago
        > Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!". The question I ask myself is where does being "rude" end and oppression of your opposition start. I'm thinking about this in the broader context of multiple elections happening here in Europe this year and what is the appropriate response. On one hand I'm strictly in the camp that if you say shit people should be fully allowed to critize you for it. On the other hand I'm not sure this is a helpful strategy to further the wanted end. That aside, this sub-thread is about the fine line where the power relations change and those who weren't in power before now start to abuse that power themselves. I've seen multiple calls to legally oppress people that voted for Trump. That's as wrong to me as legal oppression of women and minorities. I don't know if there's such a thing as "good oppression", but I have a feeling the answer is no.

by sgift 10y ago

hkmurakami 10y ago

Definitely. The tactics used to shame Trump supporters, evangelicals, and the like are the exact same as the ones used to shame and invalidate people of color, women's rights, etc. In the past. It's disheartening, really.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
intended 10y ago
It's natural. Maybe people haven't seen it in America before, but this happens all the time. Radicalism begets radical responses over enough of a time line. People in this thread keep feeling disheartened or calling out liberals enclaves - but they completely forget that this is only 3 weeks into Trumps presidency. As a candidate he was frightening to liberals, in a way no American presidential candidate has been in a long time. And now he is president. He scares and disturbs people around the world. I can't imagine how liberal groups feel. On top of that he won and is supported by people who argue that hate speech is free speech.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  I don't care how liberal groups feel. I care how they act. And how they are acting is contrary to both liberalism and liberty. (Conservatives are not acting conservatively, either...)
  - intended 10y ago
    If you don't quite care about how people feel, you lose the position to judge how they act. Human actions ultimately find their motivation in emotions, not in rationality. Besides- that's a belief unmoored from reality. There's a fight going on, and one side has been using techniques to dismantle every institution and source of strength of the other. Youll have reached the point that even facts itself are under question. The period of following ideals died a while back. Either liberals learn from the political play book of the conservatives, or they disappear.
Mithaldu 10y ago
The frightening part about your post is that you might not even be trolling.
- sgift 10y ago
  Why is this frightening?
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    Presumably because it's trying to equate San Francisco liberals venting about Trump supporters, with the legal oppression of women and minorities with the full backing of the state. A level of false equivalency that is terrifying for people who are slowly realising that a large number of Trump supporters have lost all touch with reality. "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" -- Voltaire 59% of Trump supporters believe the last president of the United states was not a citizen of the US, and therefore ineligible to be president. 66% believe that Obama is lying about his religion and is secretly a muslim. Put together, that is some real "Protocals of the Elders of Zion" stuff. No wonder they want to ban muslims, they actually believe the country has already been secretly taken over by them. There's multiple bestseller books that claim exactly that. People pushing this conspiracy are all over the Republican establishment and Trump and other public figures drop blatant dog-whistles that just sound like stupidity to normal people, but confirm these paranoid fantasies for believers. Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!".
    - sgift 10y ago
      > Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!". The question I ask myself is where does being "rude" end and oppression of your opposition start. I'm thinking about this in the broader context of multiple elections happening here in Europe this year and what is the appropriate response. On one hand I'm strictly in the camp that if you say shit people should be fully allowed to critize you for it. On the other hand I'm not sure this is a helpful strategy to further the wanted end. That aside, this sub-thread is about the fine line where the power relations change and those who weren't in power before now start to abuse that power themselves. I've seen multiple calls to legally oppress people that voted for Trump. That's as wrong to me as legal oppression of women and minorities. I don't know if there's such a thing as "good oppression", but I have a feeling the answer is no.