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You're proving my point that UBI will become a deeply political and partisan issue, and not only won't just be for everyone, but also will have people endlessly

You're proving my point that UBI will become a deeply political and partisan issue, and not only won't just be for everyone, but also will have people endlessly quarreling about who should get it. Carrot and stick approach doesn't work when it comes to people. Vicious/virtuous cycles are a much better model of human behavior than homeostasis. As another poster said, you'll increase recidivism. It also undermines the "justice" aspect, since even after you got your punishment, you're still not considered a first-class citizen. That's unjust. UBI would only really work if it was inscribed in the Constitution, and deeply culturally held as something that must remain universal. Otherwise, say hi to more social instability. And what about whistleblowers? Government shouldn't have the power to discriminate when giving out UBI.

chillwaves 10y ago
As responded elsewhere, fine. Felons just continue to receive heavy fines as part of their punishment, but guess what? Now the state has a means to enforce these judgments by docking their basic income. Surely you are not arguing against fines as a punitive measure for law breaking?
- concinds 10y ago
  That's a great point, and only makes UBI look more workable. The prospect of UBI becoming a partisan target for bickering doesn't seem so likely when put like this.
  - concinds 10y ago
    Can't edit anymore so I'll reply to myself: Apparently you meant the government would reduce the UBI that someone receives. I interpreted it as everybody receives the same UBI, but obviously some punishments are accompanies by fines, and the fine for certain crimes may be equal to the amount of the UBI. Everyone would still receive the same amount, but for some, it would be "taxed" before it's actually received. That's still suboptimal but wouldn't turn the UBI into a political crisis.

chillwaves 10y ago

As responded elsewhere, fine. Felons just continue to receive heavy fines as part of their punishment, but guess what? Now the state has a means to enforce these judgments by docking their basic income. Surely you are not arguing against fines as a punitive measure for law breaking?

concinds 10y ago
That's a great point, and only makes UBI look more workable. The prospect of UBI becoming a partisan target for bickering doesn't seem so likely when put like this.
- concinds 10y ago
  Can't edit anymore so I'll reply to myself: Apparently you meant the government would reduce the UBI that someone receives. I interpreted it as everybody receives the same UBI, but obviously some punishments are accompanies by fines, and the fine for certain crimes may be equal to the amount of the UBI. Everyone would still receive the same amount, but for some, it would be "taxed" before it's actually received. That's still suboptimal but wouldn't turn the UBI into a political crisis.