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I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinua

I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. People disagree in small town Utah, and it would be uncomfortable. In San Francisco you're ostracized. It even makes me nervous to leave my name attached to a comment like this, knowing that my co-workers browse HN and will see it.

Florin_Andrei 10y ago
> I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. Maybe because in the latter case you're at work, as opposed to talking to folks in the neighborhood at home? EDIT: lol, I'm posting a reply to a comment talking about ideological intolerance and shutting down of discussion, and my post is downvoted with no explanation. :) ROTFL "It's the other side who are always doing this", for sure. Yeah.
tylerwhipple 10y ago
I went from Salt Lake City to San Francisco as well. I have always been quite liberal on issues and it had never been a problem, but when discussing issues in SF I felt I had to be very careful with what I supported. I always felt my friendships/employment was threatened if I disagreed. I had a good friend/startup founder once say anyone who supported Trump deserved to be fired and blacklisted.
- dahart 10y ago
  Ha! I'm also a Salt Lake native transplant to San Fran. In Utah, I am a socialist pinko commie. In San Francisco I'm (apparently) somewhere between a libertarian and a tea party republican. At least, that's my story. I'm exaggerating for effect, and in the spirit of fun. But I was literally publicly berated at work once on the company forum for not being liberal enough, not having views consistent with California democrats, and not contributing enough money to the party. I never feared for my job though, that's awful. I could have actually been a conservative and I wouldn't have had to worry. There were conservatives in the company, though they did keep rather quiet about their views. Someone who makes a blanket statement about firing anyone with impure thoughts... it happens, but let's hope it was only a moment of weakness or anger on your friend's part.
  - nojvek 10y ago
    I believe a large part of America wanted to say "fuck you" to the big system. Trump was the candidate for red states, Sanders for democrats. I do agree with some of trumps policies. I don't agree with his behaviours though. The simplistic tax reform makes sense. A bigger deductible would mean poor people would have middle class would have a larger net gain. I support infrastructure investment. I support stricter high skilled immigration.
- jenkstom 10y ago
  It's not any different in, say, Oklahoma. Just the reverse.
  - dllthomas 10y ago
    Doesn't mean we shouldn't do better, of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
- Mithaldu 10y ago
  By supporting trump (and thus pence and gop) one implicitly agrees with people dying due to cuts in health services. (And yes, pence has already done health-related things whose only consequence were deaths.) Do you feel being fired and blacklisted is a worse consequence than suffered by people impacted by support of trump (and his people)?
  - austenallred 10y ago
    So by supporting Clinton would you implicitly be agreeing to bombing children in Syria? That's just a silly line of reasoning
    - Mithaldu 10y ago
      There is no subtlety in Pence's actions on the needle program. PS: Bernie would've been the sane choice for your country. But hey, what can you do in a two party system.
      - flukus 10y ago
        You avoided the question entirely, does your vote for Clinton mean you implicitly agree to bombing children in Syria?
        Mithaldu 10y ago
        I'm not entirely sure how exactly you get to that exact end result from her. To answer that i'd need to know more. Think you can provide an explanation?
        flukus 10y ago
        OK, let's avoid hypotheticals entirely. I'm going to assume you voted for Obama? If so, does that mean that you implicitly agree to everyone killed (guilty and innocent) by his orders?
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  When I lived in a bigger city I was constantly commenting on how it always seemed to be the most left leaning people saying things like "someone should shoot that bastard" in reference to some politician or another. It's interesting to note that the word "fired" in an employment context is the same word used to describe what occurs when a gun is operated.
- tjalfi 10y ago
  Your friend should bear in mind that political affiliation is a protected class in California (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment-discrimination-31690.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment...).
meat_fist 10y ago
> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. Serious question: are you white?
- austenallred 10y ago
  Yes
  - mjmsmith 10y ago
    Are you gay? Are you a woman? Are you Muslim?
    - mjmsmith 10y ago
      Downvoting honest questions? Huh.
      - splintercell 10y ago
        It doesn't actually sound honest, now I admit your follow up question made the intent clearer, but that original post wasn't downvoted by others for the 'sharpness' of the question but because it sounded rhetorical. Have an upvote.
      - fireflash38 10y ago
        It honestly sounds like the start of a line of questioning that is likely to shutdown opinions because of someone's characteristics rather than the opinion itself. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but it's a frequent tactic.
    - austenallred 10y ago
      White Christian (Mormon) straight male
      - mjmsmith 10y ago
justinsaccount 10y ago
> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrested-plot-bomb-somali-community/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arreste...
- mrkurt 10y ago
  What's the purpose of devaluing someone's opinion / level of comfort like that? This is exactly how you get people to disengage and destroy any chance you have of persuading them of ... whatever you want to persuade them of.
  - justinsaccount 10y ago
    "I don't understand what you are complaining about, I have no problem finding a seat on the bus" - Some white guy in 1955.
    - justinsaccount 10y ago
      But the bus is great for me. I'm perfectly comfortable riding right up at the front. How dare you devalue my opinion and level of comfort like this!
    - mrkurt 10y ago
      The original comment sounded entirely different than that to me. Regardless, if said white guy from 1955 said he was uncomfortable about something, or otherwise felt bad, telling him why other people have it worse seems counter productive. Someone always has it worse.
    - Barraketh 10y ago
      "They're making black people sit in the back. Let's make white people sit in the back instead!"
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dguaraglia 10y ago
A lot of it depends on your approach. I'm one of the brashest people around, and even I have gotten into constructive (and instructive to me) conversations about thorny topics with people, with one simple approach: don't be an asshole. I haven't been ostracized, I haven't been "silenced" or "oppressed". I have had my ass handed to me about uninformed opinions I held, though. And that hurts your pride, but eventually makes you a better person.
rdl 10y ago
It wasn't always like this. Silicon Valley was a lot more diverse/tolerant in the first dotcom boom and until ~2006 or so than since. It really went off the deep end circa the Brendan Eich incident (2014), and then the most recent Presidential election cycle. The "Ex-communicate Peter Thiel" movement was the point of no return, and when I decided to flee permanently. It doesn't seem to be as bad even in other equally-liberal tech areas outside SV.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  Both the Eich and Thiel situations were downright appalling in how they mirrored the exact kind of Witch hunt and ostracizing that liberalism historically and morally should be against. The fact that people didn't seem to grasp the hypocrisy and danger of their actions made it even more chilling.
  - austenallred 10y ago
    That people openly suggested firing anyone who voted for Trump was pretty shocking to me (despite the fact that I didn't vote for him)
    - sgift 10y ago
      This is one of the first things I've noticed when looking at political discussions. People (correctly) note the abuse of powers in others, but the moment they get power themselves they see no problem with (ab)using it to attack those who did it before. And then the power relations change again and it starts anew.
      - hkmurakami 10y ago
        Definitely. The tactics used to shame Trump supporters, evangelicals, and the like are the exact same as the ones used to shame and invalidate people of color, women's rights, etc. In the past. It's disheartening, really.
        deleted 10y ago

Florin_Andrei 10y ago

> I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. Maybe because in the latter case you're at work, as opposed to talking to folks in the neighborhood at home? EDIT: lol, I'm posting a reply to a comment talking about ideological intolerance and shutting down of discussion, and my post is downvoted with no explanation. :) ROTFL "It's the other side who are always doing this", for sure. Yeah.

tylerwhipple 10y ago

I went from Salt Lake City to San Francisco as well. I have always been quite liberal on issues and it had never been a problem, but when discussing issues in SF I felt I had to be very careful with what I supported. I always felt my friendships/employment was threatened if I disagreed. I had a good friend/startup founder once say anyone who supported Trump deserved to be fired and blacklisted.

dahart 10y ago
Ha! I'm also a Salt Lake native transplant to San Fran. In Utah, I am a socialist pinko commie. In San Francisco I'm (apparently) somewhere between a libertarian and a tea party republican. At least, that's my story. I'm exaggerating for effect, and in the spirit of fun. But I was literally publicly berated at work once on the company forum for not being liberal enough, not having views consistent with California democrats, and not contributing enough money to the party. I never feared for my job though, that's awful. I could have actually been a conservative and I wouldn't have had to worry. There were conservatives in the company, though they did keep rather quiet about their views. Someone who makes a blanket statement about firing anyone with impure thoughts... it happens, but let's hope it was only a moment of weakness or anger on your friend's part.
- nojvek 10y ago
  I believe a large part of America wanted to say "fuck you" to the big system. Trump was the candidate for red states, Sanders for democrats. I do agree with some of trumps policies. I don't agree with his behaviours though. The simplistic tax reform makes sense. A bigger deductible would mean poor people would have middle class would have a larger net gain. I support infrastructure investment. I support stricter high skilled immigration.
jenkstom 10y ago
It's not any different in, say, Oklahoma. Just the reverse.
- dllthomas 10y ago
  Doesn't mean we shouldn't do better, of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
Mithaldu 10y ago
By supporting trump (and thus pence and gop) one implicitly agrees with people dying due to cuts in health services. (And yes, pence has already done health-related things whose only consequence were deaths.) Do you feel being fired and blacklisted is a worse consequence than suffered by people impacted by support of trump (and his people)?
- austenallred 10y ago
  So by supporting Clinton would you implicitly be agreeing to bombing children in Syria? That's just a silly line of reasoning
  - Mithaldu 10y ago
    There is no subtlety in Pence's actions on the needle program. PS: Bernie would've been the sane choice for your country. But hey, what can you do in a two party system.
    - flukus 10y ago
      You avoided the question entirely, does your vote for Clinton mean you implicitly agree to bombing children in Syria?
      - Mithaldu 10y ago
        I'm not entirely sure how exactly you get to that exact end result from her. To answer that i'd need to know more. Think you can provide an explanation?
        flukus 10y ago
        OK, let's avoid hypotheticals entirely. I'm going to assume you voted for Obama? If so, does that mean that you implicitly agree to everyone killed (guilty and innocent) by his orders?
TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
When I lived in a bigger city I was constantly commenting on how it always seemed to be the most left leaning people saying things like "someone should shoot that bastard" in reference to some politician or another. It's interesting to note that the word "fired" in an employment context is the same word used to describe what occurs when a gun is operated.
tjalfi 10y ago
Your friend should bear in mind that political affiliation is a protected class in California (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment-discrimination-31690.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment...).

meat_fist 10y ago

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. Serious question: are you white?

austenallred 10y ago
Yes
- mjmsmith 10y ago
  Are you gay? Are you a woman? Are you Muslim?
  - mjmsmith 10y ago
    Downvoting honest questions? Huh.
    - splintercell 10y ago
      It doesn't actually sound honest, now I admit your follow up question made the intent clearer, but that original post wasn't downvoted by others for the 'sharpness' of the question but because it sounded rhetorical. Have an upvote.
    - fireflash38 10y ago
      It honestly sounds like the start of a line of questioning that is likely to shutdown opinions because of someone's characteristics rather than the opinion itself. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but it's a frequent tactic.
  - austenallred 10y ago
    White Christian (Mormon) straight male
    - mjmsmith 10y ago

justinsaccount 10y ago

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrested-plot-bomb-somali-community/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arreste...

mrkurt 10y ago
What's the purpose of devaluing someone's opinion / level of comfort like that? This is exactly how you get people to disengage and destroy any chance you have of persuading them of ... whatever you want to persuade them of.
- justinsaccount 10y ago
  "I don't understand what you are complaining about, I have no problem finding a seat on the bus" - Some white guy in 1955.
  - justinsaccount 10y ago
    But the bus is great for me. I'm perfectly comfortable riding right up at the front. How dare you devalue my opinion and level of comfort like this!
  - mrkurt 10y ago
    The original comment sounded entirely different than that to me. Regardless, if said white guy from 1955 said he was uncomfortable about something, or otherwise felt bad, telling him why other people have it worse seems counter productive. Someone always has it worse.
  - Barraketh 10y ago
    "They're making black people sit in the back. Let's make white people sit in the back instead!"

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dguaraglia 10y ago

A lot of it depends on your approach. I'm one of the brashest people around, and even I have gotten into constructive (and instructive to me) conversations about thorny topics with people, with one simple approach: don't be an asshole. I haven't been ostracized, I haven't been "silenced" or "oppressed". I have had my ass handed to me about uninformed opinions I held, though. And that hurts your pride, but eventually makes you a better person.

rdl 10y ago

It wasn't always like this. Silicon Valley was a lot more diverse/tolerant in the first dotcom boom and until ~2006 or so than since. It really went off the deep end circa the Brendan Eich incident (2014), and then the most recent Presidential election cycle. The "Ex-communicate Peter Thiel" movement was the point of no return, and when I decided to flee permanently. It doesn't seem to be as bad even in other equally-liberal tech areas outside SV.

hkmurakami 10y ago
Both the Eich and Thiel situations were downright appalling in how they mirrored the exact kind of Witch hunt and ostracizing that liberalism historically and morally should be against. The fact that people didn't seem to grasp the hypocrisy and danger of their actions made it even more chilling.
- austenallred 10y ago
  That people openly suggested firing anyone who voted for Trump was pretty shocking to me (despite the fact that I didn't vote for him)
  - sgift 10y ago
    This is one of the first things I've noticed when looking at political discussions. People (correctly) note the abuse of powers in others, but the moment they get power themselves they see no problem with (ab)using it to attack those who did it before. And then the power relations change again and it starts anew.
    - hkmurakami 10y ago
      Definitely. The tactics used to shame Trump supporters, evangelicals, and the like are the exact same as the ones used to shame and invalidate people of color, women's rights, etc. In the past. It's disheartening, really.
      - deleted 10y ago