5 ms·

I'm 24, and have grown up here. First time I really heard about it was Trump at his rallies.

by artursapek 10y ago

topquark 10y ago
Then you haven't been paying attention. This is a perennial topic for both Republicans and Democrats.
- artursapek 10y ago
  Perhaps that's the case. I never paid much attention to politics before this guy came in and made it entertaining.
astrodust 10y ago
"Infrastructure" necessarily includes schools, which at this point are in many cases scary useless.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  I feel like "useless" is too kind... plenty of them are actively harmful and dangerous.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    Although there's a few bright spots, the stories I hear about the "No Child Left Behind" generation are terrifying. Standardized testing has destroyed everything and the current education secretary is going to burn what's left of the system to the ground in the name of profit.
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      The dream of an electorate too stupid and uneducated to grasp even a basic consensus reality is going to be arriving in a hurry.
- xyzzy4 10y ago
  Schools are more similar to prisons than infrastructure.
- artursapek 10y ago
  Heh, I just started my kid in a private school.
nscalf 10y ago
For all of the hate that Trump gets (I personally think most of it is earned), he has touched on some really important issues that have been ignored for a long time. Infrastructure is one of those.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Then problem is not that he's 100% wrong, the problem is that when he's right it seems to be of the "Broken Clock" variety. When there is little rhyme or reason to the views he takes, he's bound to end up in a few positive places (such as today, condemning anti-Semitism). The problem with Trump is that they're only positive in these highly isolated, episodic ways.
  - artursapek 10y ago
    That sounds like a lazy way to dismiss a guy who maybe deserves more credit than he gets.
    - macintux 10y ago
      It's painful to extend credit to a man with no moral compass, no demonstrated capacity for learning, no comprehension of the damage he does, no understanding of history, no concept of loyalty to anything outside of himself.
    - MegaButts 10y ago
      What does Trump deserve credit for?
      - ythn 10y ago
        Are you going to try and find "the problem" with anything he deserves credit for?
        M_Grey 10y ago
        Let me get this straight... you want the person to whom you're replying, to guess at what achievements someone else might claim for Trump, and then guess at any problems there might be with them?
jmedefind 10y ago
It's been talked about a lot for a long time. But nothing ever gets pass congress. Obama tried to pass a lot of infrastructure spending as part of the 2008 Stimulation package, but a lot didn't make it into the final budget. Everyone wants it fixed, but no one wants to pay for it. Many states fund their roads and bridges via a gas tax. But no one wants to raise the price of gas. So nothing gets fixed through that channel either. It's a real problem in the US and our divisive and nut job "party first" politics.
- vermontdevil 10y ago
  Some states divert a % of the gas tax to other budget lines instead of transportation infrastructure. Then people want to either raise the tax or resist against it without realizing that 100% of the gas tax should be 100% for what it is originally intended to be. You can find numerous examples by googling Gas Tax Diversions such as this one: https://www.irtba.org/GasTax https://www.irtba.org/GasTax
  - stuckagain 10y ago
    All states spend much more on roads than they take in on gas taxes, so the issue of whether gas taxes are "diverted" is moot. Every state also "diverts" a huge amount of general revenues to road building and maintenance. To stay with your example of Illinois, which recently passed a "lockbox" ballot measure for road funds, tolls and fuel taxes take in 1.6 billion a year but the state spends over 4 billion a year just on road maintenance alone, not even counting ancillary expenses like DMV, State Police, etc.
TYPE_FASTER 10y ago
Obama tried to make it happen for a long time: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/03/obama-calls-infrastructure-spending-fifth-time-five-years/316815/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/03/obama-c...
csours 10y ago
Tip for the future: be more specific in comments. It seems you are talking about this crisis, other commenters are talking about infrastructure crises in general.
ForrestN 10y ago
Obama tried to convince congressional Republicans to do an infrastructure bill for all eight years of his presidency. Republicans refused to even try to find common ground. Obama talked about it a lot, too, during both of his campaigns.
- lettergram 10y ago
  Thats definitely true. However, there were things he could have done to try and fix it. For example, he passed Obamacare through without any regard for Republican thoughts. He could have done the same for infrastructure, in fact, i'd argue the infrastructure spending would have been more in line legally and he would have had less fighting.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    They did a $100 billion infrastructure package right at the start of the term, before ACA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009#Infrastructure_investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvest...
  - ForrestN 10y ago
    This is simply not accurate. The ACA is a deep, deep compromise compared to what liberals wanted, and was in fact largely modeled on the Republican plan crafted by Mitt Romney in Massachusetts. If Obama had crafted Obamacare without any regard for Republican thoughts, we would have government provided universal healthcare. The fact that obstructionist Republicans decided to oppose the bill in the end does not reflect the fact that it was passed after much consultation with the right and is, indeed, a compromise.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  During the first two years of his presidency his party controlled both houses of Congress. He didn't need Republicans to get it done.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
colanderman 10y ago
I live in a liberal bubble and hear about infrastructure woes often enough, for example from John Oliver here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpzvaqypav8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpzvaqypav8
theandrewbailey 10y ago
Where is the "here" you speak of? I've lived in the Rust Belt and Appalachia for most of my life (I'm 28), and I've watched infrastructure rust and fall apart this whole time.
cgearhart 10y ago
Infrastructure and transportation has been a significant issue in US elections since at least 2008 (see below). Historically, democrats have sought significant public investment for infrastructure; republican proposals have preferred incentivizing private investment. So while everyone agrees that it needs to happen, partisanship prevents anything from happening. Official Democratic & Republican Party Platforms: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php Occurrances of the word "infrastructure" in party platforms: 2016 D: 23, R: 3 2012 D: 26, R: 11 2008 D: 28, R: 6 2004 D: 4, R: 12 2000 D: 5, R: 5 "Infrastructure" as... Prominent Issue (i.e., specific paper or plan released): Clinton 2016 -- https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/fixing-americas-infrastructure/ https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/fixing-americas-infras... Sanders 2016 -- https://berniesanders.com/issues/creating-jobs-rebuilding-america/ https://berniesanders.com/issues/creating-jobs-rebuilding-am... Trump 2016 -- (dead link) https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/an-americas-infrastructure-first-plan/ https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/an-americas-infrastruc... Obama 2008 -- (dead link) http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/FactSheetTransportation.pdf http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/FactSheetTransportatio... Minor Issue (i.e., some mention): Romney 2012 -- https://grist.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/believeinamerica-planforjobsandeconomicgrowth-full.pdf https://grist.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/believeinamerica-p... McCain 2008 -- (dead link) http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/CBCD3A48-4B0E-4864-8BE1-D04561C132EA.htm http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/CBCD3A48-4B0E-486... Kerry 2004 -- http://www.4president.org/brochures/2004/johnkerry2004brochure.htm http://www.4president.org/brochures/2004/johnkerry2004brochu... Article comparing Obama/McCain 2008: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/589460/- http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/589460/-

I'm 24, and have grown up here. First time I really heard about it was Trump at his rallies.

topquark 10y ago

Then you haven't been paying attention. This is a perennial topic for both Republicans and Democrats.

artursapek 10y ago
Perhaps that's the case. I never paid much attention to politics before this guy came in and made it entertaining.

astrodust 10y ago

"Infrastructure" necessarily includes schools, which at this point are in many cases scary useless.

M_Grey 10y ago
I feel like "useless" is too kind... plenty of them are actively harmful and dangerous.
- astrodust 10y ago
  Although there's a few bright spots, the stories I hear about the "No Child Left Behind" generation are terrifying. Standardized testing has destroyed everything and the current education secretary is going to burn what's left of the system to the ground in the name of profit.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    The dream of an electorate too stupid and uneducated to grasp even a basic consensus reality is going to be arriving in a hurry.
xyzzy4 10y ago
Schools are more similar to prisons than infrastructure.
artursapek 10y ago
Heh, I just started my kid in a private school.

nscalf 10y ago

For all of the hate that Trump gets (I personally think most of it is earned), he has touched on some really important issues that have been ignored for a long time. Infrastructure is one of those.

M_Grey 10y ago
Then problem is not that he's 100% wrong, the problem is that when he's right it seems to be of the "Broken Clock" variety. When there is little rhyme or reason to the views he takes, he's bound to end up in a few positive places (such as today, condemning anti-Semitism). The problem with Trump is that they're only positive in these highly isolated, episodic ways.
- artursapek 10y ago
  That sounds like a lazy way to dismiss a guy who maybe deserves more credit than he gets.
  - macintux 10y ago
    It's painful to extend credit to a man with no moral compass, no demonstrated capacity for learning, no comprehension of the damage he does, no understanding of history, no concept of loyalty to anything outside of himself.
  - MegaButts 10y ago
    What does Trump deserve credit for?
    - ythn 10y ago
      Are you going to try and find "the problem" with anything he deserves credit for?
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        Let me get this straight... you want the person to whom you're replying, to guess at what achievements someone else might claim for Trump, and then guess at any problems there might be with them?

jmedefind 10y ago

It's been talked about a lot for a long time. But nothing ever gets pass congress. Obama tried to pass a lot of infrastructure spending as part of the 2008 Stimulation package, but a lot didn't make it into the final budget. Everyone wants it fixed, but no one wants to pay for it. Many states fund their roads and bridges via a gas tax. But no one wants to raise the price of gas. So nothing gets fixed through that channel either. It's a real problem in the US and our divisive and nut job "party first" politics.

vermontdevil 10y ago
Some states divert a % of the gas tax to other budget lines instead of transportation infrastructure. Then people want to either raise the tax or resist against it without realizing that 100% of the gas tax should be 100% for what it is originally intended to be. You can find numerous examples by googling Gas Tax Diversions such as this one: https://www.irtba.org/GasTax https://www.irtba.org/GasTax
- stuckagain 10y ago
  All states spend much more on roads than they take in on gas taxes, so the issue of whether gas taxes are "diverted" is moot. Every state also "diverts" a huge amount of general revenues to road building and maintenance. To stay with your example of Illinois, which recently passed a "lockbox" ballot measure for road funds, tolls and fuel taxes take in 1.6 billion a year but the state spends over 4 billion a year just on road maintenance alone, not even counting ancillary expenses like DMV, State Police, etc.

TYPE_FASTER 10y ago

Obama tried to make it happen for a long time: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/03/obama-calls-infrastructure-spending-fifth-time-five-years/316815/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/03/obama-c...

csours 10y ago

Tip for the future: be more specific in comments. It seems you are talking about this crisis, other commenters are talking about infrastructure crises in general.

ForrestN 10y ago

Obama tried to convince congressional Republicans to do an infrastructure bill for all eight years of his presidency. Republicans refused to even try to find common ground. Obama talked about it a lot, too, during both of his campaigns.

lettergram 10y ago
Thats definitely true. However, there were things he could have done to try and fix it. For example, he passed Obamacare through without any regard for Republican thoughts. He could have done the same for infrastructure, in fact, i'd argue the infrastructure spending would have been more in line legally and he would have had less fighting.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  They did a $100 billion infrastructure package right at the start of the term, before ACA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009#Infrastructure_investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvest...
- ForrestN 10y ago
  This is simply not accurate. The ACA is a deep, deep compromise compared to what liberals wanted, and was in fact largely modeled on the Republican plan crafted by Mitt Romney in Massachusetts. If Obama had crafted Obamacare without any regard for Republican thoughts, we would have government provided universal healthcare. The fact that obstructionist Republicans decided to oppose the bill in the end does not reflect the fact that it was passed after much consultation with the right and is, indeed, a compromise.
rhapsodic 10y ago
During the first two years of his presidency his party controlled both houses of Congress. He didn't need Republicans to get it done.
- dragonwriter 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

colanderman 10y ago

I live in a liberal bubble and hear about infrastructure woes often enough, for example from John Oliver here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpzvaqypav8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpzvaqypav8

theandrewbailey 10y ago

Where is the "here" you speak of? I've lived in the Rust Belt and Appalachia for most of my life (I'm 28), and I've watched infrastructure rust and fall apart this whole time.

cgearhart 10y ago

Infrastructure and transportation has been a significant issue in US elections since at least 2008 (see below). Historically, democrats have sought significant public investment for infrastructure; republican proposals have preferred incentivizing private investment. So while everyone agrees that it needs to happen, partisanship prevents anything from happening. Official Democratic & Republican Party Platforms: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php Occurrances of the word "infrastructure" in party platforms: 2016 D: 23, R: 3 2012 D: 26, R: 11 2008 D: 28, R: 6 2004 D: 4, R: 12 2000 D: 5, R: 5 "Infrastructure" as... Prominent Issue (i.e., specific paper or plan released): Clinton 2016 -- https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/fixing-americas-infrastructure/ https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/fixing-americas-infras... Sanders 2016 -- https://berniesanders.com/issues/creating-jobs-rebuilding-america/ https://berniesanders.com/issues/creating-jobs-rebuilding-am... Trump 2016 -- (dead link) https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/an-americas-infrastructure-first-plan/ https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/an-americas-infrastruc... Obama 2008 -- (dead link) http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/FactSheetTransportation.pdf http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/FactSheetTransportatio... Minor Issue (i.e., some mention): Romney 2012 -- https://grist.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/believeinamerica-planforjobsandeconomicgrowth-full.pdf https://grist.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/believeinamerica-p... McCain 2008 -- (dead link) http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/CBCD3A48-4B0E-4864-8BE1-D04561C132EA.htm http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/CBCD3A48-4B0E-486... Kerry 2004 -- http://www.4president.org/brochures/2004/johnkerry2004brochure.htm http://www.4president.org/brochures/2004/johnkerry2004brochu... Article comparing Obama/McCain 2008: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/589460/- http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/589460/-