4 ms·

Now consider this approach with spam. To paraphrase you, there's always that remote chance that one of the Nigerian Princes could actually need your help. I u

by rb1 10y ago

Now consider this approach with spam. To paraphrase you, there's always that remote chance that one of the Nigerian Princes could actually need your help. I used to do a similar thing to you, but it's too much work now and the levels of job spam ("Oil pipeline engineer" roles, simply because my CV has the word engineer in it (prefixed with Software)... lazy recruiter, that's bad!). Basically, if they can't make the effort, why should I? I guess the answer is, "Because there's always that remote chance that one of them could be able to set me up with a "dream job""..

davidcbc 10y ago
Recruiters and Nigerian scams aren't comparable. People legitimately get jobs through recruiters. I got my dream job through a recruiter who found me. Nobody gets the Nigerian Prince's money
- taway_1212 10y ago
  My logic is that if something needs to be actively sold (pushed via recruiters), it's most likely average at best. I'm betting that the best jobs don't go through recruiters (or maybe they do if that's the company-wide policy, but the hiring manager already has a candidate in mind when they posts the ad).
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    You've hit on a truth here. Most of the jobs available through recruiters are what I like to call "dog jobs". The ones that aren't filled internally and don't instantly get a line of top candidates because they are so good or pay so well--the ones that NEED someone to sell them. Those are the jobs that are available on job boards and that recruiters and are trying to fill--not the awesome ones. Think about it like the real estate market (in normal markets, not Silicon Valley). Some houses sell before they even hit the market. A few also sell after the realtor does a few private showings. The rest are the "dog properties" that go on the MLS and need heavy marketing to sell.
    - smallnamespace 10y ago
      > The rest are the "dog properties" that go on the MLS and need heavy marketing to sell. That's... a strange way to look at the housing market. The norm is to list your property and then see what bids you get. Putting your house on the market is not some weird trick to pass a crappy house on to a bunch of rubes, or am I misunderstanding you? Like, how do you reliably find a willing buyer pre-listing, and how do you know that's a good price (other than just blindly trusting your agent), if you don't even bother listing it? Listing is as much about price discovery as it is about finding more buyers.
      - ticviking 10y ago
        The point is that the best homes(top 10%) rarely need to go on the market. The hotter the market, the more realtors know buyers willing to pay a lot for the first home that meets all their needs. Hence more homes are sold before listed.
        daurnimator 10y ago
        > The point is that the best homes(top 10%) rarely need to go on the market. I think that's locale specific. Except in the 15million+ bracket, auctions (here in Melbourne at least) tend to get the best money for the seller.
    - davidcbc 10y ago
      This assumes that the Venn diagram of "top candidates" and "people actively looking for jobs" overlaps significantly. The best candidate for a job may not be looking for a job so companies pay recruiters to find them. If the quality that companies were getting from regular applications was better than the quality they get from their recruiters why would companies pay to have recruiters?
      - ryandrake 10y ago
        I think we're agreeing with each other. Recruiters are needed if the job does not fill itself naturally, and a job will tend to get the candidate flow it deserves. If there's an awesome job available out there, with way above average pay, benefits, great opportunities for advancement, good work/life balance, etc., you'll fill it with a top talent. You're not going to need a recruiter. Word will get around even to people who are not actively looking, trust me. Similarly, if you have an "average pay for an average worker" kind of job, you'll find that average worker. When you have a ho-hum average job but you want top talent, then you're going to need that recruiter because the job needs to be actively sold. I invite anyone who works at a company that pays 3X average salaries or is well known for being an unbelievably great place to work to reply and tell me they have trouble hiring.
  - davidcbc 10y ago
    I don't think it is really trying to sell the position, it's trying to find quality engineers who aren't looking. Really talented engineers already have jobs and may not be actively looking to move, but if the right opportunity for the right company presents itself then they might consider it.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  Wait! There's actually money!? :)

by rb1 10y ago

davidcbc 10y ago

Recruiters and Nigerian scams aren't comparable. People legitimately get jobs through recruiters. I got my dream job through a recruiter who found me. Nobody gets the Nigerian Prince's money

taway_1212 10y ago
My logic is that if something needs to be actively sold (pushed via recruiters), it's most likely average at best. I'm betting that the best jobs don't go through recruiters (or maybe they do if that's the company-wide policy, but the hiring manager already has a candidate in mind when they posts the ad).
- ryandrake 10y ago
  You've hit on a truth here. Most of the jobs available through recruiters are what I like to call "dog jobs". The ones that aren't filled internally and don't instantly get a line of top candidates because they are so good or pay so well--the ones that NEED someone to sell them. Those are the jobs that are available on job boards and that recruiters and are trying to fill--not the awesome ones. Think about it like the real estate market (in normal markets, not Silicon Valley). Some houses sell before they even hit the market. A few also sell after the realtor does a few private showings. The rest are the "dog properties" that go on the MLS and need heavy marketing to sell.
  - smallnamespace 10y ago
    > The rest are the "dog properties" that go on the MLS and need heavy marketing to sell. That's... a strange way to look at the housing market. The norm is to list your property and then see what bids you get. Putting your house on the market is not some weird trick to pass a crappy house on to a bunch of rubes, or am I misunderstanding you? Like, how do you reliably find a willing buyer pre-listing, and how do you know that's a good price (other than just blindly trusting your agent), if you don't even bother listing it? Listing is as much about price discovery as it is about finding more buyers.
    - ticviking 10y ago
      The point is that the best homes(top 10%) rarely need to go on the market. The hotter the market, the more realtors know buyers willing to pay a lot for the first home that meets all their needs. Hence more homes are sold before listed.
      - daurnimator 10y ago
        > The point is that the best homes(top 10%) rarely need to go on the market. I think that's locale specific. Except in the 15million+ bracket, auctions (here in Melbourne at least) tend to get the best money for the seller.
  - davidcbc 10y ago
    This assumes that the Venn diagram of "top candidates" and "people actively looking for jobs" overlaps significantly. The best candidate for a job may not be looking for a job so companies pay recruiters to find them. If the quality that companies were getting from regular applications was better than the quality they get from their recruiters why would companies pay to have recruiters?
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      I think we're agreeing with each other. Recruiters are needed if the job does not fill itself naturally, and a job will tend to get the candidate flow it deserves. If there's an awesome job available out there, with way above average pay, benefits, great opportunities for advancement, good work/life balance, etc., you'll fill it with a top talent. You're not going to need a recruiter. Word will get around even to people who are not actively looking, trust me. Similarly, if you have an "average pay for an average worker" kind of job, you'll find that average worker. When you have a ho-hum average job but you want top talent, then you're going to need that recruiter because the job needs to be actively sold. I invite anyone who works at a company that pays 3X average salaries or is well known for being an unbelievably great place to work to reply and tell me they have trouble hiring.
- davidcbc 10y ago
  I don't think it is really trying to sell the position, it's trying to find quality engineers who aren't looking. Really talented engineers already have jobs and may not be actively looking to move, but if the right opportunity for the right company presents itself then they might consider it.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
Wait! There's actually money!? :)