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Re: Elixir The Erlang/OTP 19.x releases are still broken because of some missing system calls. They seem to have an incoming fix though: https://github.com/Mic

by strmpnk 10y ago

Re: Elixir The Erlang/OTP 19.x releases are still broken because of some missing system calls. They seem to have an incoming fix though: https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/613 https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/613 It's great that they keep open conversations like this for issue tracking and hopefully April will be working 100% by then.

amorphid 10y ago
For this reason, whenever I try to develop anything on Windows, especially systems related stuff, I will do so in a VM. I may develop a test suite and try running it on Windows, but the Windows Linux Subsystem will never be reliable to me, until it aims to guarantee 100% compatibly.
- jamesgeck0 10y ago
  Why wouldn't getting as close to 100% compatibility as possible be the aim? WSL is currently beta. The installation documentation has a big warning at the top that functionality is currently incomplete.
  - amorphid 10y ago
    All I can say is that the first two things I tried on the Windows Linux Subsystem didn't work, mainly running Elixir and Debootstrap. It's okay that they aren't (yet?) supported, but something that looks & smells like Ubuntu, yet isn't, doesn't inspire confidence that it can be trusted to act like Ubuntu. An alternative approach would be to call it Winbuntu, Winux, or simply Ubuntu for <windows subsystem architecture>. Then aggressively maintain a list of known compatibility issues, and stay on top of fixing them. Maybe even open source it?! A close sourced, not-quite-what-I-wanted solution is simply less interesting to me.
    - jamesgeck0 10y ago
      I'm not sure a public-facing curated list of specific compatibility issues would be practical at this stage of the project's life; it's changing fairly rapidly. FWIW, the bug tracker is public, and the team seems to be fairly responsive; a UPX Compression bug I ran into was tagged fixinbound within a couple weeks. https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows The speed at which they can push new builds to people who aren't on Windows Insider is a bit unfortunate, though.
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      > All I can say is that the first two things I tried on the Windows Linux Subsystem didn't work, mainly running Elixir and Debootstrap. It's okay that they aren't (yet?) supported, but something that looks & smells like Ubuntu, yet isn't, doesn't inspire confidence that it can be trusted to act like Ubuntu. You need to handle this anyways, as it's unlikely that your target deploy platform will always be ubuntu. In any case, you can just use docker like most OSX folks do now.
    - voltagex_ 10y ago
      I don't think they can open source WSL in any useful capacity because it's signed as part of the kernel itself - afaict this is also why an update to WSL is an update to the Windows build itself.
    - hermitdev 10y ago
      I'm not familiar with Elixir or Debootstrap (I'm guessing web-oriented)? But, I've had great success with using WSL for C++ oriented projects, building with both g++ & clang. Only issue in that regard I've had is that the emulated syscalls cannot currently enumerate ethernet devices. The calls are implemented, but fail at runtime currently. I've not yet filed a bug report, because I don't know how it should perform.
      - bitcrazed 10y ago
        You should be able to enumerate network connections on recent Insider builds ... or on Creators Update when it arrives in ... well ... "Soon™" :)
- atomi 10y ago
  Bash and Windows Subsystem for Linux is a band-aid solution for a fundamental problem for Microsoft: Linux tooling and kernel are IT industry standards.
  - nailer 10y ago
    They are for one part of the tech industry (which I count myself in) but it's pretty obvious that for many others, Microsoft-based tech (which now runs everywhere) is a standard. Why not persue both?
  - Joeri 10y ago
    People have been developing on OS X outside a VM for a while now, and OS X is most definitely not linux. If they can get WSL to be as linuxy as OS X (and arguably it's already close), Windows will be as good a dev platform for linux development as OS X. But they really need to fix notepad so it supports unix style line endings. That part of the demo was a bit embarrassing.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
      WSL is more Linuxy than macOS, it implements the Linux syscall interface rather than Darwin's.
      - amorphid 10y ago
        I agree with this. OS X is a flavor of BSD. I've learned that it's often more helpful to search for "<thing I want to do> bash BSD" than it is to search for "<thing I want to do> bash OS X". Making "Winbuntu" a fully compatible Ubuntu sounds like a really lofty goal, especially when it comes to things that expect a Linux file system. I guess for me, it's easier to reason about Linux in a VM (or maybe a container), with all the limitations of that approach, than it is to wonder what surprise might occur as a result of trying to run something on Winbuntu. At some point maybe that will shift. It's not like VMs are exactly like bare metal. Keeping trying hard Microsoft! I like Winbuntu enough that I bought a Windows 10 laptop just to play with it! Emphasis on play, not seriously use.

by strmpnk 10y ago

amorphid 10y ago

For this reason, whenever I try to develop anything on Windows, especially systems related stuff, I will do so in a VM. I may develop a test suite and try running it on Windows, but the Windows Linux Subsystem will never be reliable to me, until it aims to guarantee 100% compatibly.

jamesgeck0 10y ago
Why wouldn't getting as close to 100% compatibility as possible be the aim? WSL is currently beta. The installation documentation has a big warning at the top that functionality is currently incomplete.
- amorphid 10y ago
  All I can say is that the first two things I tried on the Windows Linux Subsystem didn't work, mainly running Elixir and Debootstrap. It's okay that they aren't (yet?) supported, but something that looks & smells like Ubuntu, yet isn't, doesn't inspire confidence that it can be trusted to act like Ubuntu. An alternative approach would be to call it Winbuntu, Winux, or simply Ubuntu for <windows subsystem architecture>. Then aggressively maintain a list of known compatibility issues, and stay on top of fixing them. Maybe even open source it?! A close sourced, not-quite-what-I-wanted solution is simply less interesting to me.
  - jamesgeck0 10y ago
    I'm not sure a public-facing curated list of specific compatibility issues would be practical at this stage of the project's life; it's changing fairly rapidly. FWIW, the bug tracker is public, and the team seems to be fairly responsive; a UPX Compression bug I ran into was tagged fixinbound within a couple weeks. https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows The speed at which they can push new builds to people who aren't on Windows Insider is a bit unfortunate, though.
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    > All I can say is that the first two things I tried on the Windows Linux Subsystem didn't work, mainly running Elixir and Debootstrap. It's okay that they aren't (yet?) supported, but something that looks & smells like Ubuntu, yet isn't, doesn't inspire confidence that it can be trusted to act like Ubuntu. You need to handle this anyways, as it's unlikely that your target deploy platform will always be ubuntu. In any case, you can just use docker like most OSX folks do now.
  - voltagex_ 10y ago
    I don't think they can open source WSL in any useful capacity because it's signed as part of the kernel itself - afaict this is also why an update to WSL is an update to the Windows build itself.
  - hermitdev 10y ago
    I'm not familiar with Elixir or Debootstrap (I'm guessing web-oriented)? But, I've had great success with using WSL for C++ oriented projects, building with both g++ & clang. Only issue in that regard I've had is that the emulated syscalls cannot currently enumerate ethernet devices. The calls are implemented, but fail at runtime currently. I've not yet filed a bug report, because I don't know how it should perform.
    - bitcrazed 10y ago
      You should be able to enumerate network connections on recent Insider builds ... or on Creators Update when it arrives in ... well ... "Soon™" :)
atomi 10y ago
Bash and Windows Subsystem for Linux is a band-aid solution for a fundamental problem for Microsoft: Linux tooling and kernel are IT industry standards.
- nailer 10y ago
  They are for one part of the tech industry (which I count myself in) but it's pretty obvious that for many others, Microsoft-based tech (which now runs everywhere) is a standard. Why not persue both?
- Joeri 10y ago
  People have been developing on OS X outside a VM for a while now, and OS X is most definitely not linux. If they can get WSL to be as linuxy as OS X (and arguably it's already close), Windows will be as good a dev platform for linux development as OS X. But they really need to fix notepad so it supports unix style line endings. That part of the demo was a bit embarrassing.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    WSL is more Linuxy than macOS, it implements the Linux syscall interface rather than Darwin's.
    - amorphid 10y ago
      I agree with this. OS X is a flavor of BSD. I've learned that it's often more helpful to search for "<thing I want to do> bash BSD" than it is to search for "<thing I want to do> bash OS X". Making "Winbuntu" a fully compatible Ubuntu sounds like a really lofty goal, especially when it comes to things that expect a Linux file system. I guess for me, it's easier to reason about Linux in a VM (or maybe a container), with all the limitations of that approach, than it is to wonder what surprise might occur as a result of trying to run something on Winbuntu. At some point maybe that will shift. It's not like VMs are exactly like bare metal. Keeping trying hard Microsoft! I like Winbuntu enough that I bought a Windows 10 laptop just to play with it! Emphasis on play, not seriously use.