4 ms·

But has the news gone a day without telling a verifiable lie? I read an article yesterday running down the list of organizations (quoted and linked) mocking Tru

But has the news gone a day without telling a verifiable lie? I read an article yesterday running down the list of organizations (quoted and linked) mocking Trump for referring to a terrorist attack the night before in Sweden. The full transcript shows Trump never mentioned a terrorist attack. It's not that Trump is so trustworthy it's just that one person can't possibly lie as much as thousands.

theWatcher37 10y ago
We live in a world where obama can get the number of US states wrong and get a pass, and trump mentioning a segment he saw last night on FOX is the end of the world. Interestingly enough the media parroted the "debunked" claim when the article was using statistics from Sweden's own government. Rape is up 70% since 2005. Grenade attacks are also a thing in Sweden now, which is absolutely unacceptable.
- erelde 10y ago
  And you are not believing stats released by one of the least corrupt democracy of the West. There was one grenade launched in Sweden in August last year. There's at least 1 killed by a semi auto in the US per day. Sweden has near zero homicide rate. edit: it seems there was more than 'one' explosions in Sweden, but looking at the wikipedia article history linked below doesn't fill me with confidence considering how the language used has changed between august when the article was made and now. Also note how the wikipedia editors write about organized crime using old grenades from WWII and not migrants bombing Swedish people.
  - mizzack 10y ago
    One? Huh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...
    - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
      Wow, they're almost up to a few days worth of gun crime in the US there.
      - rfrank 10y ago
        Wow, that dramatic increase in frequency just magically happened huh?
        knowaveragejoe 10y ago
        Sounds like all your prejudices are confirmed.
        rfrank 10y ago
        That's certainly one way to interpret it. Not a very good one, but do you.
- scholia 10y ago
  Unlike Obama, Trump is a pathological liar. He peaked at 40 lies in a single day, his diatribe against mainstream media included 17 lies, and he's managed at least 80 lies as so called president. As a matter of fact, Trump built his political career on lying about Obama's place of birth. See: https://www.thestar.com/news/donald-trump-fact-check.html https://www.thestar.com/news/donald-trump-fact-check.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/uselection/2016/11/04/donald-trump-the-unauthorized-database-of-false-things.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/uselection/2016/11/04/don... http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-false-statements-20160925-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-false-statem... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-o... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/06/donald-trumps-ridiculous-claim-that-hillary-clinton-started-the-birther-movement/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/... Trump Lies about His Birther Past: A Closer Look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sBhANSz--k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sBhANSz--k "Trump built his career on a racist lie because he's a racist and a liar" -- Seth Meyers
  - scholia 10y ago
    New item from the Washington Post's fact checkers: In the 33 days so far, we’ve counted 132 false or misleading claims https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claim...
- eh78ssxv2f 10y ago
  About Obama getting the states wrong, did you mean this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp?
- gizmo385 10y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the increase in rape statistics in Sweden largely attributable to broadening of the government's definition of what it considers rape?
  - croon 10y ago
    Yes, legal reform in 2005 and 2013 can be clearly linked to those spikes.
- unprepare 10y ago
  how does Trump react when hes called out on a lie, and how does Obama react when hes called out? > I understand I said there were 57 states today. It’s a sign that my numeracy is getting a little, uh …” >“I don’t know,” Trump repeated. “I was given that information.”
jeromegv 10y ago
He mentioned all cities and countries where terrorist attacks occurred. Then mentioned something happened in Sweden as well specifically the night before. It's not because he didn't put the word "terrorist attack" in the same sentence that he didn't mean that, it's clear from the transcript that it was exactly what he meant. ---- "Here's the bottom line, we've got to keep our country safe," Trump said. "You look at what's happening. We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany. You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden! Who would believe this? Sweden! They took in large numbers, they're having problems like they never thought possible." He continued, " You look at what’s happening in Brussels. You look at what’s happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris. We’ve allowed thousands and thousands of people into our country and there was no way to vet those people. There was no documentation. There was no nothing. So we’re going to keep our country safe." ----
- kbart 10y ago
  Yet it happened the day after his speech[0]. A fertile ground for various conspiracies. 0. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/21/riots-erupt-in-swedens-capital-just-days-after-trump-comments/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/21...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - candiodari 10y ago
    I don't know why this is considered conspiracy. This event is a bit like the car burning "protests" in France. Most days where it "doesn't" happen according to the press should be understood as it happening less, not so much not. People are demonstrating and torching cars pretty much every Friday, in Paris, in Nice, in Lille, in ..., and more so every once and a while for a decade now. Most recent New Year's eve: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749511/French-government-Sarkozy-hide-statistics-New-Year-s-Eve-arson-attack-increase-Le-Pen http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749511/French-government... There are constant serious incidents in Stockholm and Malmo, every Friday. There are constant serious incidents (like 10-20 cars torched minimum) in every major French city every Friday, including even Brussels on occasion, for over a decade now. There are serious incidents in Rotterdam and the poor parts of Amsterdam. I'm not sure why this is not being reported, although in the French case it is pretty clear the government is suppressing reporting. But of course, after a decade of this few people are unaware. The problem is, everybody knows, and the suppression is causing people to assume things are worse than they are (although they are far beyond what even a San Franciscan would tolerate). The issue is people can just leave their homes, drive 1km further than usual and see proof positive (torched cars being cleaned up, destroyed businesses) that the government is suppressing news. And no, it (mostly) isn't immigrants doing this, although it definitely is muslim inner city youth. The issue is simple: the governments are lying. Very, very transparently lying. For the fool's hope of turning an anti-immigrant wave back. Meanwhile, you can't actually say you feel like this in most settings. The issue with that is what happens at work. 90% or so of a consulting team working at some bank or whatever will be of the opinion that this needs to stop, and some percentage of them feels that electing Le Pen/Dewinter/Wilders/... will accomplish, maybe not a stop, but an improvement. And it absolutely can't be discussed, because that is sure to, at the very least, result in complaints to HR or management. Meanwhile 100m down the road, 15 floors down, things are slowly getting worse. Some days you can't get a sandwich without getting confronted with it. Will this get us Le Pen ? God I hope not.
erelde 10y ago
Trump didn't directly claim there was a terrorist attack in Sweden "last night", but by saying in the same breath as "look at Paris, look at Nice" where there was three very well known attacks in 2 years, he is implicitely saying "there was an attack in Sweden last night", and he knows it perfectly well. And he knows that a portion of his listeners will not hear the debunking and others will believe him rather than hard tangible facts. And he very consciouly said it in this way because he knew all this. This is the Kuleshov effect of speeches.

theWatcher37 10y ago

We live in a world where obama can get the number of US states wrong and get a pass, and trump mentioning a segment he saw last night on FOX is the end of the world. Interestingly enough the media parroted the "debunked" claim when the article was using statistics from Sweden's own government. Rape is up 70% since 2005. Grenade attacks are also a thing in Sweden now, which is absolutely unacceptable.

erelde 10y ago
And you are not believing stats released by one of the least corrupt democracy of the West. There was one grenade launched in Sweden in August last year. There's at least 1 killed by a semi auto in the US per day. Sweden has near zero homicide rate. edit: it seems there was more than 'one' explosions in Sweden, but looking at the wikipedia article history linked below doesn't fill me with confidence considering how the language used has changed between august when the article was made and now. Also note how the wikipedia editors write about organized crime using old grenades from WWII and not migrants bombing Swedish people.
- mizzack 10y ago
  One? Huh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...
  - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
    Wow, they're almost up to a few days worth of gun crime in the US there.
    - rfrank 10y ago
      Wow, that dramatic increase in frequency just magically happened huh?
      - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
        Sounds like all your prejudices are confirmed.
        rfrank 10y ago
        That's certainly one way to interpret it. Not a very good one, but do you.
scholia 10y ago
Unlike Obama, Trump is a pathological liar. He peaked at 40 lies in a single day, his diatribe against mainstream media included 17 lies, and he's managed at least 80 lies as so called president. As a matter of fact, Trump built his political career on lying about Obama's place of birth. See: https://www.thestar.com/news/donald-trump-fact-check.html https://www.thestar.com/news/donald-trump-fact-check.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/uselection/2016/11/04/donald-trump-the-unauthorized-database-of-false-things.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/uselection/2016/11/04/don... http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-false-statements-20160925-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-false-statem... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-o... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/06/donald-trumps-ridiculous-claim-that-hillary-clinton-started-the-birther-movement/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/... Trump Lies about His Birther Past: A Closer Look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sBhANSz--k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sBhANSz--k "Trump built his career on a racist lie because he's a racist and a liar" -- Seth Meyers
- scholia 10y ago
  New item from the Washington Post's fact checkers: In the 33 days so far, we’ve counted 132 false or misleading claims https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claim...
eh78ssxv2f 10y ago
About Obama getting the states wrong, did you mean this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp?
gizmo385 10y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the increase in rape statistics in Sweden largely attributable to broadening of the government's definition of what it considers rape?
- croon 10y ago
  Yes, legal reform in 2005 and 2013 can be clearly linked to those spikes.
unprepare 10y ago
how does Trump react when hes called out on a lie, and how does Obama react when hes called out? > I understand I said there were 57 states today. It’s a sign that my numeracy is getting a little, uh …” >“I don’t know,” Trump repeated. “I was given that information.”

jeromegv 10y ago

He mentioned all cities and countries where terrorist attacks occurred. Then mentioned something happened in Sweden as well specifically the night before. It's not because he didn't put the word "terrorist attack" in the same sentence that he didn't mean that, it's clear from the transcript that it was exactly what he meant. ---- "Here's the bottom line, we've got to keep our country safe," Trump said. "You look at what's happening. We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany. You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden! Who would believe this? Sweden! They took in large numbers, they're having problems like they never thought possible." He continued, " You look at what’s happening in Brussels. You look at what’s happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris. We’ve allowed thousands and thousands of people into our country and there was no way to vet those people. There was no documentation. There was no nothing. So we’re going to keep our country safe." ----

kbart 10y ago
Yet it happened the day after his speech[0]. A fertile ground for various conspiracies. 0. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/21/riots-erupt-in-swedens-capital-just-days-after-trump-comments/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/21...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- candiodari 10y ago
  I don't know why this is considered conspiracy. This event is a bit like the car burning "protests" in France. Most days where it "doesn't" happen according to the press should be understood as it happening less, not so much not. People are demonstrating and torching cars pretty much every Friday, in Paris, in Nice, in Lille, in ..., and more so every once and a while for a decade now. Most recent New Year's eve: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749511/French-government-Sarkozy-hide-statistics-New-Year-s-Eve-arson-attack-increase-Le-Pen http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749511/French-government... There are constant serious incidents in Stockholm and Malmo, every Friday. There are constant serious incidents (like 10-20 cars torched minimum) in every major French city every Friday, including even Brussels on occasion, for over a decade now. There are serious incidents in Rotterdam and the poor parts of Amsterdam. I'm not sure why this is not being reported, although in the French case it is pretty clear the government is suppressing reporting. But of course, after a decade of this few people are unaware. The problem is, everybody knows, and the suppression is causing people to assume things are worse than they are (although they are far beyond what even a San Franciscan would tolerate). The issue is people can just leave their homes, drive 1km further than usual and see proof positive (torched cars being cleaned up, destroyed businesses) that the government is suppressing news. And no, it (mostly) isn't immigrants doing this, although it definitely is muslim inner city youth. The issue is simple: the governments are lying. Very, very transparently lying. For the fool's hope of turning an anti-immigrant wave back. Meanwhile, you can't actually say you feel like this in most settings. The issue with that is what happens at work. 90% or so of a consulting team working at some bank or whatever will be of the opinion that this needs to stop, and some percentage of them feels that electing Le Pen/Dewinter/Wilders/... will accomplish, maybe not a stop, but an improvement. And it absolutely can't be discussed, because that is sure to, at the very least, result in complaints to HR or management. Meanwhile 100m down the road, 15 floors down, things are slowly getting worse. Some days you can't get a sandwich without getting confronted with it. Will this get us Le Pen ? God I hope not.

erelde 10y ago

Trump didn't directly claim there was a terrorist attack in Sweden "last night", but by saying in the same breath as "look at Paris, look at Nice" where there was three very well known attacks in 2 years, he is implicitely saying "there was an attack in Sweden last night", and he knows it perfectly well. And he knows that a portion of his listeners will not hear the debunking and others will believe him rather than hard tangible facts. And he very consciouly said it in this way because he knew all this. This is the Kuleshov effect of speeches.