5 ms·

I did look and we disagree. Perhaps you can quantify what you saw?

by tomlock 10y ago

facepalm 10y ago
I'll give it a shot, going through the first 100 tweets or so counting men, women, skin colors, is that what you mean? Hope to get round to it later in the day. And btw I think it gives the impression they don't want to hire men, it doesn't prove that Google doesn't want to hire (white) men. But if they are interested in hiring white men, they might check the message they are sending out. For sure their reputation is so good that white men will probably still apply in droves, so whatever (same probably goes for women and PoCs, anyway). But in my opinion they will also drive away some people. (edited to add "in my opinion") And as I said - it is fine if you disagree, but at least there is something tangible to disagree on. That's different from simply playing into some stereotypes. Seriously, you are defending here the equivalent of "I have heard all blacks are criminals, and therefore it is true, no matter what you say". Wtf?
- tomlock 10y ago
  >But they will also drive away some people. What evidence do you have for this?
  - facepalm 10y ago
    My feelings :-) Granted, that is not yet "some", only one, but with millions of white men on the planet, chances seem high others see it the same way. If you really want to nitpick, quantify my sentence with "in my opinion".
    - tomlock 10y ago
      Absolute confirmation bias. I can't wait for your quantification of the life at google twitter.
      - facepalm 10y ago
        Well I don't have that much time, so for now I only looked at pictures with people in them they have posted since December 1. Simply counting people yields 29% white women, 19% women of color, 21% men of color, 30% white men. Not a very exact science, though - I left out groups above a certain size (for example picture from Anti-Trump demonstration or MLKday), and in some cases I couldn't recognize the people. Many white men come from office shots where they linger in the background, whereas there are many tweets explicitly featuring female or black engineers. It seems by only looking at their "media timeline" I also missed photos like this one: https://twitter.com/Every28HoursPla/status/831666887717031936 https://twitter.com/Every28HoursPla/status/83166688771703193... (which they retweeted). I'll try to find time for a better "analysis", ideally including texts. Compared to last time there seem to be now more posts boasting technology at Google. For example there were several about Tensor Flow, all featuring the same white guy (I counted him for every instance). I couldn't find the time when I last posted about lifeatgoogle, would have liked to look at their tweets from around then. For comparison employee stats from 2014: http://mashable.com/2014/05/28/google-employee-demographics/#zdocqLkt78qJ http://mashable.com/2014/05/28/google-employee-demographics/... - 70% male, 91% white or asian.
        tomlock 10y ago
        So what's your conclusion?
        facepalm 10y ago
        This time around there were more white men, I think - in part because of some specials like Tensor Flow, or a picture from an actual office. It is still biased against white men (if it is supposed to reflect the actual distribution of Google employees), but not as extreme as last time. I really would like to find the date of my last comment about it. Also perhaps simply more data is needed - a single picture with several people could shift the results here, because I checked only pics from 2.5 months. Also better methodology needed, this was just a quick shot looking into one simple metric.

I did look and we disagree. Perhaps you can quantify what you saw?

by tomlock 10y ago

I did look and we disagree. Perhaps you can quantify what you saw?

I'll give it a shot, going through the first 100 tweets or so counting men, women, skin colors, is that what you mean? Hope to get round to it later in the day. And btw I think it gives the impression they don't want to hire men, it doesn't prove that Google doesn't want to hire (white) men. But if they are interested in hiring white men, they might check the message they are sending out. For sure their reputation is so good that white men will probably still apply in droves, so whatever (same probably goes for women and PoCs, anyway). But in my opinion they will also drive away some people. (edited to add "in my opinion") And as I said - it is fine if you disagree, but at least there is something tangible to disagree on. That's different from simply playing into some stereotypes. Seriously, you are defending here the equivalent of "I have heard all blacks are criminals, and therefore it is true, no matter what you say". Wtf?

tomlock 10y ago
>But they will also drive away some people. What evidence do you have for this?
- facepalm 10y ago
  My feelings :-) Granted, that is not yet "some", only one, but with millions of white men on the planet, chances seem high others see it the same way. If you really want to nitpick, quantify my sentence with "in my opinion".
  - tomlock 10y ago
    Absolute confirmation bias. I can't wait for your quantification of the life at google twitter.
    - facepalm 10y ago
      Well I don't have that much time, so for now I only looked at pictures with people in them they have posted since December 1. Simply counting people yields 29% white women, 19% women of color, 21% men of color, 30% white men. Not a very exact science, though - I left out groups above a certain size (for example picture from Anti-Trump demonstration or MLKday), and in some cases I couldn't recognize the people. Many white men come from office shots where they linger in the background, whereas there are many tweets explicitly featuring female or black engineers. It seems by only looking at their "media timeline" I also missed photos like this one: https://twitter.com/Every28HoursPla/status/831666887717031936 https://twitter.com/Every28HoursPla/status/83166688771703193... (which they retweeted). I'll try to find time for a better "analysis", ideally including texts. Compared to last time there seem to be now more posts boasting technology at Google. For example there were several about Tensor Flow, all featuring the same white guy (I counted him for every instance). I couldn't find the time when I last posted about lifeatgoogle, would have liked to look at their tweets from around then. For comparison employee stats from 2014: http://mashable.com/2014/05/28/google-employee-demographics/#zdocqLkt78qJ http://mashable.com/2014/05/28/google-employee-demographics/... - 70% male, 91% white or asian.
      - tomlock 10y ago
        So what's your conclusion?
        facepalm 10y ago
        This time around there were more white men, I think - in part because of some specials like Tensor Flow, or a picture from an actual office. It is still biased against white men (if it is supposed to reflect the actual distribution of Google employees), but not as extreme as last time. I really would like to find the date of my last comment about it. Also perhaps simply more data is needed - a single picture with several people could shift the results here, because I checked only pics from 2.5 months. Also better methodology needed, this was just a quick shot looking into one simple metric.