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Layup is very expensive and labor intensive yes. And most layup methods require expensive jigs. You also have to use expensive, stiff epoxy resin if you want t

by jordanb 10y ago

Layup is very expensive and labor intensive yes. And most layup methods require expensive jigs. You also have to use expensive, stiff epoxy resin if you want to have the mechanical properties of carbon fiber. Fiberglass is typically laid up in cheaper polyester resin since glass fiber are stretchier than carbon fiber.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> Fiberglass is typically laid up in cheaper polyester resin since glass fiber are stretchier than carbon fiber Would you mind expanding on that? I'm curious around the barriers to mass-produced carbon fiber.
- jordanb 10y ago
  Carbon fiber can be laid up in polyester resin but it doesn't make sense to not match capabilities between the resin and the reinforcement. A glass fiber/polyester panel will be no worse than a carbon fiber/polyester panel. So if you choose polyester you'd be a fool to use a reinforcement more expensive than glass fiber. So as a practical matter, the decision to use carbon fiber reinforcement implies the use of epoxy resin.
discreteevent 10y ago
Yes. I thought the article was going to be about layup when it said costs would plummet. Particularly I was thinking of carbon fibre bikes. Looks like this will have no effect on their cost. To make a bike you need a special mold/jig for each part for each bike size. These cost money to make so to scale out the process is expensive (I.e. to have a lot of workers producing bikes concurrently). With metal tubing you can just make a lot if it and then cut, bend and weld it. Every worker doesn't need an expensive jig. And like you said, just laying up the fibre on a jig is time consuming and manual. Anyway, they can make extremely light aluminium bikes now with really good ride characteristics and they won't break if you drop them the wrong way!
ericcumbee 10y ago
Are you familar with REAMS? it was supposed to be a better version of Carbon fiber that was a lot easier to layup and did not have to be Autoclaved. They were going to use it in the Nissan Delta Wing, but i think alot of that fell by the wayside when they elected to use the Monocoque from the Aston Marton AMR-1 rather than a bespoke tub. Never really heard much about it after that.

by jordanb 10y ago

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

> Fiberglass is typically laid up in cheaper polyester resin since glass fiber are stretchier than carbon fiber Would you mind expanding on that? I'm curious around the barriers to mass-produced carbon fiber.

jordanb 10y ago
Carbon fiber can be laid up in polyester resin but it doesn't make sense to not match capabilities between the resin and the reinforcement. A glass fiber/polyester panel will be no worse than a carbon fiber/polyester panel. So if you choose polyester you'd be a fool to use a reinforcement more expensive than glass fiber. So as a practical matter, the decision to use carbon fiber reinforcement implies the use of epoxy resin.

discreteevent 10y ago

Yes. I thought the article was going to be about layup when it said costs would plummet. Particularly I was thinking of carbon fibre bikes. Looks like this will have no effect on their cost. To make a bike you need a special mold/jig for each part for each bike size. These cost money to make so to scale out the process is expensive (I.e. to have a lot of workers producing bikes concurrently). With metal tubing you can just make a lot if it and then cut, bend and weld it. Every worker doesn't need an expensive jig. And like you said, just laying up the fibre on a jig is time consuming and manual. Anyway, they can make extremely light aluminium bikes now with really good ride characteristics and they won't break if you drop them the wrong way!

ericcumbee 10y ago

Are you familar with REAMS? it was supposed to be a better version of Carbon fiber that was a lot easier to layup and did not have to be Autoclaved. They were going to use it in the Nissan Delta Wing, but i think alot of that fell by the wayside when they elected to use the Monocoque from the Aston Marton AMR-1 rather than a bespoke tub. Never really heard much about it after that.