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Evidence that ancient Japan was more cosmopolitan than previously thought (2016)
- z2 10y agoPrior to Europe's Age of Discovery, much of the world was actually quite well-connected. Just look at Ibn Battuta's travels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Battuta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Battuta) -- when in Yuan Dynasty China, he stayed in a city's Muslim quarter with Egyptian immigrants!
- Florin_Andrei 10y agoIt was, for sure, but in a low-bandwidth, high-risk kind of way.
- Retric 10y agoNot if you adjust for relative population sizes. Many societies had huge dependency's on foreign trade.
- perfmode 10y agoWorld traveler in the 1300's. Incredible.
- douche 10y agoThe Pax Mongolica[1] was actually a great heydey of trade and travel across Eurasia. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Mongolica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Mongolica
- HarryHirsch 10y agoThe Ancients were not that primitive. There is the Periplus Maris Erythraei, a manual for traders that describes the ports of the Indian Ocean, from Zanzibar to Sri Lanka. These are the ports that were regularly visited by merchantmen on trading voyages. More adventurous characters might want to cut out the middleman and sail further to China, whose existence is mentioned in the same text. 700 years prior Pharao Necho II outfitted an expedition to sail around the African continent, for no other reason than research. http://www.livius.org/sources/content/herodotus/herodotus-on-the-first-circumnavigation-of-africa/ http://www.livius.org/sources/content/herodotus/herodotus-on...
- ekianjo 10y agoAncient Greeks were already world travelers. Look at Herodotus and his list of 7 wonders (the real, original one).
- trgn 10y agoThe most famous one being Marco Polo of course. From his descriptions of the Khan's empire, he's practically tripping over the foreigners. Turks, Arabs ("Saracens"), Indians, Tartars, "Latins" (ie. europeans), all traveling Eurasia.
- buzzybee 10y agoThe evidence continues building for the case that colonial Europe rewrote world history to maximally justify conquest.
- frozenport 10y agoOr that this guy is misinformed, for example, were there tomatoes in India before the Age of Discovery?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- blackbagboys 10y agoThe article describes evidence that an educated member of the Persian elite was employed at an academy that trained officials of the Japanese imperial government. It's not at all clear how the researcher in the article makes the leap from this limited evidence for elite-to-elite contact to the conclusion that "...this suggests Nara was a cosmopolitan city where foreigners were treated equally.” Consider the conclusions that would be drawn from the modern-day scenario of a modern-day Persian employed at a government training facility in, say, Pyongyang...
- contingencies 10y agoAgreed. In addition, we know that pretty much every Central and South Asian influence (Buddhist or otherwise) certainly arrived in Japan and Korea via China and the Silk Road. Given this reality, it probably makes sense to point out that when we look at China's achievements in this period, Japan and Korea are extremely humbled. See their capital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27an their second largest city https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luoyang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luoyang one major Buddhist monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leshan_Giant_Buddha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leshan_Giant_Buddha astrological maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunhuang_Star_Chart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunhuang_Star_Chart and general technological achievement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_of_the_Tang_dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_of_the_... ...
- ktRolster 10y agoit probably makes sense to point out that when we look at China's achievements in this period, Japan and Korea are extremely humbled You really didn't have to turn it into a rivalry.
- contingencies 10y agoChina had a serious, flourishing, cosmopolitan age with people from tens of unique cultures and simultaneously invented critical technologies such as printing. Japan and Korea basically simply absorbed more from China, and there's little evidence that they came in to direct contact with foreigners from further afield such as Central and South Asians except inside of or via China. For example, the period Japanese monk Ennin records that he visited a certain monastery near Taishan, at which the graves of numerous South Asian monks (as well as some Koreans, etc.) are found. His motivation for travel was literally seeking knowledge, and his destination was China.
- rpazyaquian 10y agoI don't know if I would call the Heian period "ancient".
- GolDDranks 10y agoThe article isn't about the Heian period (794–1185) but Nara period (710–794). (Or at least it is implied.) The Nara period was the first historical period in the history of Japan. (Historical defined as: written history surviving from that period exists) In that sense, it makes sense to me to call it "ancient".
- Steko 10y agoWe had some of same discussion at /r/history when this article came out in October: https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/56goti/new_findings_suggest_that_ancient_japan_was_more/d8j9pey/ https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/56goti/new_finding...
- sandworm101 10y agoThis is why i like HN. often it isnt the OPs but how reading posted articles means accessing news sources i wouldnt normally see. From the OP about ancient japan i found this amusing story about modern japanese language and cultural perspective. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/02/17/national/japans-interpreters-struggle-to-make-sense-of-trump-speeches/#.WKy4l_yIY0M http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/02/17/national/japans-...
- titanix2 10y agoA Japanese people saying "He rarely speaks logically, and he only emphasizes one side of things as if it were the absolute truth." feels very ironical to me. Having lived there I discovered that logic is not a core value and more often than not one have to do something the way it is supposed to be done, period. Given that's the second paragraph first sentence, I would take the whole article with a grain of salt.
- tn13 10y agoEvidence that prejudiced white western beliefs about orient turned out to be wrong ? Who is surprised fellas. This might sound like a racist rant but it is not. I routinely come across American Indologists routinely publishing papers about India which are way off than what an Indian might be able to see as trivial truth. I will not be surprised of Western world has made similar mistakes about the Orient. I think western academia needs a more unbiased fact-check about their understanding of the rest of the world especially in the times of xenophobia.