4 ms·

Snapchat has 1900 employees? That's way more than I expected. For comparison, that's 5x the size of Valve, and around 2x the size of Riot Games. Snapchat is do

by Cyph0n 10y ago

Snapchat has 1900 employees? That's way more than I expected. For comparison, that's 5x the size of Valve, and around 2x the size of Riot Games. Snapchat is doing nowhere near the amount of work being done at either Valve or Riot, as far as I can tell at least. So is this just a case of "growing because we have money", or is there in fact a legitimate reason behind such a large workforce?

40acres 10y ago
Why are you comparing Snapchat to video game developers? They are a social media company and advertising platform and are pioneers of a new technology (AR). They should be compared to their peers.
- nailer 10y ago
  I guess because physics based lighting engines with online realtime interaction are more complex than social networks and messaging.
  - nemothekid 10y ago
    lol. Is there anyone at Valve currently writing physics based lighting engines? I'd imagine scaling social media messaging pipelines are a bit more complex than designing new hats and weapon skins.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      It's confirmed that Valve has multiple games in development, so yes, there are people working on physics engines. Not to mention that there are in fact people there who understand physics engines, or else how would they fix bugs in their existing games? On top of their games, they have Steam, which I'd argue is more complex to scale than a "social media messaging pipeline".
      - HammadB 10y ago
        This thread has brought up a rather unknown bias a lot of non-game software engineers have, that game dev is rather easy compared to other software. Having been on both sides of the coin I gotta say they're equally challenging problem spaces
        Cyph0n 10y ago
        I have the opposite bias actually: I think developing a game is much more complex than writing a SaaS app. And I truly respect a full-stack game dev (art, music, design, development, networking) waaay more than a full-stack web dev. The former are quite rare admittedly.
  - argonaut 10y ago
    Valve does not rely on advertising, and therefore does not require hundreds of salespeople, marketers, and ad account managers.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      Why do you make that sound like a bad thing? I'd say good on Valve for finding a reliable and scalable revenue stream.
      - argonaut 10y ago
        How does my post make it sound like a bad thing? My tone is completely neutral. I was explaining why there are so many employees.
        Cyph0n 10y ago
        My apologies, you are right.
  - codemac 10y ago
    More complexity does not mean you need more people.
  - nightski 10y ago
    Especially one with over 100 million active players per month.
  - deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
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- Cyph0n 10y ago
  In 2014, LoL had 27 million daily active players. Snapchat has an estimated 150 million daily active users. But a typical game in LoL is nothing like typical Snapchat usage. Games are live and constantly changing, and therefore require complex state management, synchronization between the participating clients and the server, as well as low latency game updates. As for Valve, the ~300 employees maintain three entire AAA video games, each with their own online communities and supporting backend infrastructure. Valve also controls the largest online game marketplace in the world with around 70 million active users AFAIK. Oh, and since you brought AR up, Valve is a pioneer of room-scale VR technology, and actually has a device on sale in the real world.
  - 40acres 10y ago
    Yeah but why compare Snapchat to Valve? They are not compeitive, they do not cross domains, if we're talking about the efficiency and quality and other metrics with regards to Snapchat I think they should be compared with their own class.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      You make it sound like I'm comparing an oil services company to a hedge fund here. Both Valve and Snapchat are software companies. Both companies hire from approximately the same talent pool. Most of the people they hire end up writing software, which consists of a frontend and a backend. In the case of Valve, the frontend is a game or the Steam store, while the backend is the infrastructure to support the game/store (servers, databases, etc.). As for Snap, the frontend is the website/apps (Android, iOS, etc.), while the backend consists of servers, databases, etc., just like Valve. Yes, the companies deliver different products, and they definitely may have many differences, but the core is the same in both cases: providing a software-based platform to users. In addition, both companies likely face the same challenges when it comes to scaling, given the similarities in their backends. That's why I think it's fair to compare the two.
SeanBoocock 10y ago
While it doesn't provide a lot of insight, their S1 filing provides a good overview of the breadth of their offering, where they hope to expand, and their philosophy on hiring: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1564408/000119312517029199/d270216ds1.htm#rom270216_11 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1564408/000119312517... Also, I don't think the comparison to Riot, Valve or any other game developer is useful. I am sure Snap is tackling plenty of knotty technical challenges, not the least of which is their forthcoming Spectacles. Also increased complexity != increase in headcount. If I had to guess, I would surmise that Snap employs a lot of people in ad sales and far more in customer service/messaging than any developer.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  > Also increased complexity != increase in headcount. Why not, exactly? Unless you are saying that Valve/Riot employs smarter people than Snap, I can't see really why a less complex product requires more people to develop and/or maintain it. > If I had to guess, I would surmise that Snap employs a lot of people in ad sales and far more in customer service/messaging than any developer. Advertising would definitely be a source of overhead, but customer service? Does Snap even have a support line? And why do you assume that services like Steam or LoL don't also require customer service?
freyr 10y ago
They went from 600 to 1900 employees in 2016. It's not clear what all people are doing, but Snapchat has to manage a lot of relationships with advertisers and their content partners. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of technical vs non- technical staff, but I couldn't find that in the S-1.

by Cyph0n 10y ago

40acres 10y ago

Why are you comparing Snapchat to video game developers? They are a social media company and advertising platform and are pioneers of a new technology (AR). They should be compared to their peers.

nailer 10y ago
I guess because physics based lighting engines with online realtime interaction are more complex than social networks and messaging.
- nemothekid 10y ago
  lol. Is there anyone at Valve currently writing physics based lighting engines? I'd imagine scaling social media messaging pipelines are a bit more complex than designing new hats and weapon skins.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    It's confirmed that Valve has multiple games in development, so yes, there are people working on physics engines. Not to mention that there are in fact people there who understand physics engines, or else how would they fix bugs in their existing games? On top of their games, they have Steam, which I'd argue is more complex to scale than a "social media messaging pipeline".
    - HammadB 10y ago
      This thread has brought up a rather unknown bias a lot of non-game software engineers have, that game dev is rather easy compared to other software. Having been on both sides of the coin I gotta say they're equally challenging problem spaces
      - Cyph0n 10y ago
        I have the opposite bias actually: I think developing a game is much more complex than writing a SaaS app. And I truly respect a full-stack game dev (art, music, design, development, networking) waaay more than a full-stack web dev. The former are quite rare admittedly.
- argonaut 10y ago
  Valve does not rely on advertising, and therefore does not require hundreds of salespeople, marketers, and ad account managers.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    Why do you make that sound like a bad thing? I'd say good on Valve for finding a reliable and scalable revenue stream.
    - argonaut 10y ago
      How does my post make it sound like a bad thing? My tone is completely neutral. I was explaining why there are so many employees.
      - Cyph0n 10y ago
        My apologies, you are right.
- codemac 10y ago
  More complexity does not mean you need more people.
- nightski 10y ago
  Especially one with over 100 million active players per month.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
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Cyph0n 10y ago
In 2014, LoL had 27 million daily active players. Snapchat has an estimated 150 million daily active users. But a typical game in LoL is nothing like typical Snapchat usage. Games are live and constantly changing, and therefore require complex state management, synchronization between the participating clients and the server, as well as low latency game updates. As for Valve, the ~300 employees maintain three entire AAA video games, each with their own online communities and supporting backend infrastructure. Valve also controls the largest online game marketplace in the world with around 70 million active users AFAIK. Oh, and since you brought AR up, Valve is a pioneer of room-scale VR technology, and actually has a device on sale in the real world.
- 40acres 10y ago
  Yeah but why compare Snapchat to Valve? They are not compeitive, they do not cross domains, if we're talking about the efficiency and quality and other metrics with regards to Snapchat I think they should be compared with their own class.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    You make it sound like I'm comparing an oil services company to a hedge fund here. Both Valve and Snapchat are software companies. Both companies hire from approximately the same talent pool. Most of the people they hire end up writing software, which consists of a frontend and a backend. In the case of Valve, the frontend is a game or the Steam store, while the backend is the infrastructure to support the game/store (servers, databases, etc.). As for Snap, the frontend is the website/apps (Android, iOS, etc.), while the backend consists of servers, databases, etc., just like Valve. Yes, the companies deliver different products, and they definitely may have many differences, but the core is the same in both cases: providing a software-based platform to users. In addition, both companies likely face the same challenges when it comes to scaling, given the similarities in their backends. That's why I think it's fair to compare the two.

SeanBoocock 10y ago

While it doesn't provide a lot of insight, their S1 filing provides a good overview of the breadth of their offering, where they hope to expand, and their philosophy on hiring: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1564408/000119312517029199/d270216ds1.htm#rom270216_11 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1564408/000119312517... Also, I don't think the comparison to Riot, Valve or any other game developer is useful. I am sure Snap is tackling plenty of knotty technical challenges, not the least of which is their forthcoming Spectacles. Also increased complexity != increase in headcount. If I had to guess, I would surmise that Snap employs a lot of people in ad sales and far more in customer service/messaging than any developer.

Cyph0n 10y ago
> Also increased complexity != increase in headcount. Why not, exactly? Unless you are saying that Valve/Riot employs smarter people than Snap, I can't see really why a less complex product requires more people to develop and/or maintain it. > If I had to guess, I would surmise that Snap employs a lot of people in ad sales and far more in customer service/messaging than any developer. Advertising would definitely be a source of overhead, but customer service? Does Snap even have a support line? And why do you assume that services like Steam or LoL don't also require customer service?

freyr 10y ago

They went from 600 to 1900 employees in 2016. It's not clear what all people are doing, but Snapchat has to manage a lot of relationships with advertisers and their content partners. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of technical vs non- technical staff, but I couldn't find that in the S-1.