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I used to think the writing system was ridiculous too, but think of how many different dialects of Chinese there are! I am Shanghainese and don't understand Man

by zasz 16y ago

I used to think the writing system was ridiculous too, but think of how many different dialects of Chinese there are! I am Shanghainese and don't understand Mandarin, and I'm sure there's a lot of Cantonese people with similar issues. We can't talk to each other, because the phonemes of our respective dialects are still so different, but the beauty of these non-phonetic ideographs is that we can still read the same newspaper. And that's very important! If we had a phonetic alphabet, it would be nearly impossible to communicate in any kind of written medium.

chbarts 16y ago
> We can't talk to each other, because the phonemes of our respective dialects are still so different Then... they aren't dialects, but are instead different languages? I've always been discomfited by the fact the Chinese government (apparently) wants to insist that there is an entity called the 'Chinese language' which is spoken from Canton to Shanghai to Beijing, allowing for dialectical differences. In reality, that's always seemed like a lie, similar to how I'd be lying if I claimed the 'European language' is spoken from Moscow to London to Rome, allowing for dialectical differences.
tokenadult 16y ago
we can still read the same newspaper Only if your schooling has exposed you consciously to the vocabulary and grammatical structures of written Chinese that differ from your regional dialect, as it surely has. Lessons in literacy in vernacular Chinese literature ( 白話文 ) are in part lessons in the spoken grammar and vocabulary of the language reflected in that literature, which these days is usually Modern Standard Chinese. If we had a phonetic alphabet, it would be nearly impossible to communicate in any kind of written medium. The experience of Western cognate languages suggests that people can always more readily communicate in writing in sound-indicating scripts than they can speak over the telephone. After edit: for example, I have read several Spanish-language letters that came randomly to business offices I worked in, without any formal course in Spanish, but I would certainly have great difficulty carrying on a conversation in Spanish.
lars512 16y ago
Languages are constantly evolving. Sharing a written script encourages different dialects to borrow words from each other in their written form. Sharing a phonetic script would instead encourage them to also borrow words in their phonetic form. So dialects might drift closer over time. Long term changes aside, a phonetic script would make learning standard Chinese and dialects faster, so children could learn both their local dialect and the government standard (Mandarin) as part of their schooling. The main problem with a phonetic script would probably be the varying phonetic inventories of the different dialects/languages within China. I'm not sure if you could make a phonetic script that would work beyond the main dialects.

by zasz 16y ago

chbarts 16y ago

> We can't talk to each other, because the phonemes of our respective dialects are still so different Then... they aren't dialects, but are instead different languages? I've always been discomfited by the fact the Chinese government (apparently) wants to insist that there is an entity called the 'Chinese language' which is spoken from Canton to Shanghai to Beijing, allowing for dialectical differences. In reality, that's always seemed like a lie, similar to how I'd be lying if I claimed the 'European language' is spoken from Moscow to London to Rome, allowing for dialectical differences.

tokenadult 16y ago

we can still read the same newspaper Only if your schooling has exposed you consciously to the vocabulary and grammatical structures of written Chinese that differ from your regional dialect, as it surely has. Lessons in literacy in vernacular Chinese literature ( 白話文 ) are in part lessons in the spoken grammar and vocabulary of the language reflected in that literature, which these days is usually Modern Standard Chinese. If we had a phonetic alphabet, it would be nearly impossible to communicate in any kind of written medium. The experience of Western cognate languages suggests that people can always more readily communicate in writing in sound-indicating scripts than they can speak over the telephone. After edit: for example, I have read several Spanish-language letters that came randomly to business offices I worked in, without any formal course in Spanish, but I would certainly have great difficulty carrying on a conversation in Spanish.

lars512 16y ago

Languages are constantly evolving. Sharing a written script encourages different dialects to borrow words from each other in their written form. Sharing a phonetic script would instead encourage them to also borrow words in their phonetic form. So dialects might drift closer over time. Long term changes aside, a phonetic script would make learning standard Chinese and dialects faster, so children could learn both their local dialect and the government standard (Mandarin) as part of their schooling. The main problem with a phonetic script would probably be the varying phonetic inventories of the different dialects/languages within China. I'm not sure if you could make a phonetic script that would work beyond the main dialects.