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The Rinpoche Fa Zang mentioned in the email is part of the Dorje Chang organization. http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20150418/pasadena-man-dorje-c

The Rinpoche Fa Zang mentioned in the email is part of the Dorje Chang organization. http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20150418/pasadena-man-dorje-chang-known-to-followers-as-buddha-is-gaining-followers-in-art-world http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20150418/pasade... His followers spend a lot of time on the internet saying that he is the greatest buddha of all time http://www.dharmadhatu-center.org/ http://www.dharmadhatu-center.org/ https://medium.com/the-buddhist-tribune/who-is-his-holiness-dorje-chang-buddha-iii-68951a8fff8d#.mx8nwp7xp https://medium.com/the-buddhist-tribune/who-is-his-holiness-... Their museum in downtown SF has a special free admission promotion going on for the next 20 years http://48hills.org/sfbgarchive/2012/08/08/worship-long-haired-handsome-cult-museum-first-thursdays/ http://48hills.org/sfbgarchive/2012/08/08/worship-long-haire... They bought the former lutheran church on 23rd St: https://www.reddit.com/r/evilbuildings/comments/4vgp3d/found_the_devil_worshippers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/evilbuildings/comments/4vgp3d/found... Being a respected teacher of Buddhism is partly about your lineage, or the path you can trace from your teacher to their teacher to their teacher to all the way back to Buddha. It looks like Dorje Chang just bribed some guys and printed up some certificates.

throwanem 10y ago
> His followers spend a lot of time on the internet saying that he is the greatest buddha of all time While I have found some of the teachings interesting and occasionally useful, I don't follow Buddhism myself, so perhaps my perspective is insufficient, but this all seems to me a bit bonkers and sort of creepy. "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him", isn't it supposed to be? - as opposed, say, to venerating him as though he were in his own person something special, rather than merely someone with an unusual sort of insight.
- WillyOnWheels 10y ago
  Spending most of your time getting your followers to proclaim how you are the most buddha of all is indeed suspicious This guy writes about his rating of various unconventional Buddhist groups http://viewonbuddhism.org/controversy-controversial-teacher-group-center-questionable.html http://viewonbuddhism.org/controversy-controversial-teacher-... "I would recommend serious caution when people are called "Living Buddhas". Such kind of title pretty much goes against all Buddhist ideas of modesty. Also when teachers promote practices for wealth and fame, or even promise 'instant enlightenment', it may be good to start asking some serious questions about the main purpose of their own 'Buddhist' practice."
- microtherion 10y ago
  If you meet the Buddha in your hackerspace, kick him out.
- nananonymous 10y ago
  "If you meet the Buddha on the road..." is a specific Zen teaching. Any time you see words like Dorje or Rinpoche it's safe to assume your dealing with Tibetan Buddhism which differs significantly from Zen. Zen is like Buddhism that went to China and picked up some Taoism while Tibetan Buddhism is like Buddhism that went to Tibet and picked up some Tantric practices. This sort of guru worship is common in Tibetan traditions. It's less common elsewhere but if you look into scandals, even in the Zen community, there are abuses of power that rely on this absolute deference to a teacher.
  - spraak 10y ago
    Very good explanation. Perhaps others in this thread can better relate to and understand the common worship of H.H. the Dalai Lama
  - msbarnett 10y ago
    Historical side note: tantric practices developed in India as one of the very late stages of its development before it faded away in that country. It was at this time that Buddhism spread from northern India, hotbed of tantra, to Tibet. So it's a bit more accurate to say that tantric Buddhism went to Tibet (and merged with Bon's animism), and then hung on there while it died off in its country of origin. (Tantric Buddhism also made its way from India, through China, and to Japan, where it survives as Shingon Buddhism)
    - nananonymous 10y ago
      Well I stand corrected, thank you. I found this really cool map that agrees with you, even if I kind of wish it had names of particular schools along the arrows. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Buddhist_Expansion.svg/2000px-Buddhist_Expansion.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Bu...
      - msbarnett 10y ago
        Wow, neat map. And full credit to the prof I had for the couple of electives I took on Buddhism in uni, for getting this stuff to stick in my head.
- m3rc 10y ago
  You are very right that they're not really following Buddhism as it's supposed to be. Zang's thing is more of a new age religious club (or even cult). But then again most people who follow some sort of religious thought are bad at it :/
- jdietrich 10y ago
  Buddhism is an enormously diverse faith. Western preconceptions of Buddhism are wholly inaccurate, giving Buddhists both too much and too little credit. Buddhism as a whole isn't the liberal, laissez-faire faith that many western seekers would like to believe. Many schools of Buddhism are highly dogmatic and hierarchical. By the same token, Buddhist thought is far more substantive than just being nice to people and doing a bit of meditation. For instance, most westerners would be very surprised to read the Devadūta Sutta, which describes numerous realms of hell. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.130.than.html http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.130.than.html As nananonymous suggests, Buddhism tends to absorb ideas from whatever culture it encounters. There are influences from Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism and a multitude of traditional belief systems. For better and for worse, the western understanding of Buddhism is filtered through the lens of our dominant ideologies. Buddhism isn't better or worse than any other religion, just different. Buddhist monks are much more than just jovial caricatures in orange robes. Buddhism has a history of intolerance, oppression, discrimination and abuse, just like any other religion. Buddhism has odd sects, cults of personality and bitter divisions over issues like homosexuality and the status of women. Trying to define "real" Buddhism is just as futile as trying to define "real" Christianity or "real" Islam.
- VLM 10y ago
  The specific quote and sect you're referring two has two cultural problems and when those are resolved the situation makes sense. The sect has a huge cultural bond with what translates into English as abstract one liners of the shock therapy genre, combined with gaining insight by teaching students how to expand that... discussion starter into an entire discussion. So that's the first problem resolved. No holy clay tablets with these dudes, shocking "Trumpian" one liners that belong on TV clickbait news are how they roll. From the point of view of the sect, your enlightenment is your goal and its obtainable via internal effort and right thinking so if you think meeting the right dude makes the religion all about you and who you meet ... or if you think you'll get enlightenment solely by meeting impressive people ... or if you think impressive people are by definition of impressive those who are more enlightened than you are ... or if you think your religious path should be about other people not yourself and your own path to enlightenment ... or if you think people who brag about enlightenment to you are anything but the lowest form of scammer and criminal, then you're wrong at the level of basic core beliefs of the sect. You might personally disagree, whatevs, thats just how they see it. BTW the kill bit is very intentional. Per the sect, similar to most human organizational codes, killing other people is pretty much about the worst possible way to proceed on your path to enlightenment and this is their peculiar way to declare that one itty bitty little step underneath the sin of killing people is the slightly less sinful mistake of worshiping other people as idols. You're better off having lots of sex and eating meat and squashing (literal) bugs than becoming a cult member, at least WRT getting anywhere on your religious path. Or maybe you could read it as at least WRT the path to enlightenment, becoming a cult member is perhaps roughly as effective as becoming a murderer (aka extremely strongly advised against) So yeah, bringing it back around, in that sect, kinda the whole point is making your religious practice that of venerating some dude who brags a lot about being more enlightened than thou as you mentioned as an example, is totally not seen as useful. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to kill him but it means venerating him would be as useless as becoming a murderer in other words maximally ineffectual. Note that there is a larger variety in belief in Buddhism than Christianity. In Buddhism there are many who would honestly disagree with this particular sect's advice about how much you should trust wandering opinionated gurus. Usually they have a great pile of differences in religious and non-religious culture such that they're more immune, have semi-elaborate defense mechanisms against false prophet cult leader type situations. So this sect relies on "You're an idiot if you join a cult" social pressure whereas other sects rely on extremely low levels of freedom for the theoretical cult leader due to traditions and maybe trust in ancient era hierarchical authoritarianism such that lunatics won't be appointed as central policy and if central policy sucks, at least its far away, and on average that works pretty well.
nananonymous 10y ago
Wow. Dorje Chang, Fa Zang's teacher, claims that he's the 3rd incarnation of the historical Buddha, the one that Buddhism is based on. But this Dorje Chang lineage isn't a lineage in the sense of The 14th Dalai Lama, or The 16th Karmapa. In those lineages there's a transmission of teachings, some real cultural functions, Wikipedia pages... But this goes beyond the usual claiming of Rinpoche status, or saying that he's some long-forgotten Tulku, I'm not sure his claimed lineage* even exists or is in any way recognized by any of the major schools of Tibetan Buddhism. *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajradhara https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajradhara
- WillyOnWheels 10y ago
  I am not an expert on Buddhism in any way but many Internet buddhism commenters, who are not affiliated with Dorje Chang, claim that Dorje Chang made up his lineage.

throwanem 10y ago

> His followers spend a lot of time on the internet saying that he is the greatest buddha of all time While I have found some of the teachings interesting and occasionally useful, I don't follow Buddhism myself, so perhaps my perspective is insufficient, but this all seems to me a bit bonkers and sort of creepy. "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him", isn't it supposed to be? - as opposed, say, to venerating him as though he were in his own person something special, rather than merely someone with an unusual sort of insight.

WillyOnWheels 10y ago
Spending most of your time getting your followers to proclaim how you are the most buddha of all is indeed suspicious This guy writes about his rating of various unconventional Buddhist groups http://viewonbuddhism.org/controversy-controversial-teacher-group-center-questionable.html http://viewonbuddhism.org/controversy-controversial-teacher-... "I would recommend serious caution when people are called "Living Buddhas". Such kind of title pretty much goes against all Buddhist ideas of modesty. Also when teachers promote practices for wealth and fame, or even promise 'instant enlightenment', it may be good to start asking some serious questions about the main purpose of their own 'Buddhist' practice."
microtherion 10y ago
If you meet the Buddha in your hackerspace, kick him out.
nananonymous 10y ago
"If you meet the Buddha on the road..." is a specific Zen teaching. Any time you see words like Dorje or Rinpoche it's safe to assume your dealing with Tibetan Buddhism which differs significantly from Zen. Zen is like Buddhism that went to China and picked up some Taoism while Tibetan Buddhism is like Buddhism that went to Tibet and picked up some Tantric practices. This sort of guru worship is common in Tibetan traditions. It's less common elsewhere but if you look into scandals, even in the Zen community, there are abuses of power that rely on this absolute deference to a teacher.
- spraak 10y ago
  Very good explanation. Perhaps others in this thread can better relate to and understand the common worship of H.H. the Dalai Lama
- msbarnett 10y ago
  Historical side note: tantric practices developed in India as one of the very late stages of its development before it faded away in that country. It was at this time that Buddhism spread from northern India, hotbed of tantra, to Tibet. So it's a bit more accurate to say that tantric Buddhism went to Tibet (and merged with Bon's animism), and then hung on there while it died off in its country of origin. (Tantric Buddhism also made its way from India, through China, and to Japan, where it survives as Shingon Buddhism)
  - nananonymous 10y ago
    Well I stand corrected, thank you. I found this really cool map that agrees with you, even if I kind of wish it had names of particular schools along the arrows. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Buddhist_Expansion.svg/2000px-Buddhist_Expansion.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Bu...
    - msbarnett 10y ago
      Wow, neat map. And full credit to the prof I had for the couple of electives I took on Buddhism in uni, for getting this stuff to stick in my head.
m3rc 10y ago
You are very right that they're not really following Buddhism as it's supposed to be. Zang's thing is more of a new age religious club (or even cult). But then again most people who follow some sort of religious thought are bad at it :/
jdietrich 10y ago
Buddhism is an enormously diverse faith. Western preconceptions of Buddhism are wholly inaccurate, giving Buddhists both too much and too little credit. Buddhism as a whole isn't the liberal, laissez-faire faith that many western seekers would like to believe. Many schools of Buddhism are highly dogmatic and hierarchical. By the same token, Buddhist thought is far more substantive than just being nice to people and doing a bit of meditation. For instance, most westerners would be very surprised to read the Devadūta Sutta, which describes numerous realms of hell. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.130.than.html http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.130.than.html As nananonymous suggests, Buddhism tends to absorb ideas from whatever culture it encounters. There are influences from Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism and a multitude of traditional belief systems. For better and for worse, the western understanding of Buddhism is filtered through the lens of our dominant ideologies. Buddhism isn't better or worse than any other religion, just different. Buddhist monks are much more than just jovial caricatures in orange robes. Buddhism has a history of intolerance, oppression, discrimination and abuse, just like any other religion. Buddhism has odd sects, cults of personality and bitter divisions over issues like homosexuality and the status of women. Trying to define "real" Buddhism is just as futile as trying to define "real" Christianity or "real" Islam.
VLM 10y ago
The specific quote and sect you're referring two has two cultural problems and when those are resolved the situation makes sense. The sect has a huge cultural bond with what translates into English as abstract one liners of the shock therapy genre, combined with gaining insight by teaching students how to expand that... discussion starter into an entire discussion. So that's the first problem resolved. No holy clay tablets with these dudes, shocking "Trumpian" one liners that belong on TV clickbait news are how they roll. From the point of view of the sect, your enlightenment is your goal and its obtainable via internal effort and right thinking so if you think meeting the right dude makes the religion all about you and who you meet ... or if you think you'll get enlightenment solely by meeting impressive people ... or if you think impressive people are by definition of impressive those who are more enlightened than you are ... or if you think your religious path should be about other people not yourself and your own path to enlightenment ... or if you think people who brag about enlightenment to you are anything but the lowest form of scammer and criminal, then you're wrong at the level of basic core beliefs of the sect. You might personally disagree, whatevs, thats just how they see it. BTW the kill bit is very intentional. Per the sect, similar to most human organizational codes, killing other people is pretty much about the worst possible way to proceed on your path to enlightenment and this is their peculiar way to declare that one itty bitty little step underneath the sin of killing people is the slightly less sinful mistake of worshiping other people as idols. You're better off having lots of sex and eating meat and squashing (literal) bugs than becoming a cult member, at least WRT getting anywhere on your religious path. Or maybe you could read it as at least WRT the path to enlightenment, becoming a cult member is perhaps roughly as effective as becoming a murderer (aka extremely strongly advised against) So yeah, bringing it back around, in that sect, kinda the whole point is making your religious practice that of venerating some dude who brags a lot about being more enlightened than thou as you mentioned as an example, is totally not seen as useful. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to kill him but it means venerating him would be as useless as becoming a murderer in other words maximally ineffectual. Note that there is a larger variety in belief in Buddhism than Christianity. In Buddhism there are many who would honestly disagree with this particular sect's advice about how much you should trust wandering opinionated gurus. Usually they have a great pile of differences in religious and non-religious culture such that they're more immune, have semi-elaborate defense mechanisms against false prophet cult leader type situations. So this sect relies on "You're an idiot if you join a cult" social pressure whereas other sects rely on extremely low levels of freedom for the theoretical cult leader due to traditions and maybe trust in ancient era hierarchical authoritarianism such that lunatics won't be appointed as central policy and if central policy sucks, at least its far away, and on average that works pretty well.

nananonymous 10y ago

Wow. Dorje Chang, Fa Zang's teacher, claims that he's the 3rd incarnation of the historical Buddha, the one that Buddhism is based on. But this Dorje Chang lineage isn't a lineage in the sense of The 14th Dalai Lama, or The 16th Karmapa. In those lineages there's a transmission of teachings, some real cultural functions, Wikipedia pages... But this goes beyond the usual claiming of Rinpoche status, or saying that he's some long-forgotten Tulku, I'm not sure his claimed lineage* even exists or is in any way recognized by any of the major schools of Tibetan Buddhism. *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajradhara https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajradhara

WillyOnWheels 10y ago
I am not an expert on Buddhism in any way but many Internet buddhism commenters, who are not affiliated with Dorje Chang, claim that Dorje Chang made up his lineage.