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Since there are a lot of "fasters" here, let me ask something. I'd like to create a fasting habit just to experiment, but can't understand how that's even possi

Since there are a lot of "fasters" here, let me ask something. I'd like to create a fasting habit just to experiment, but can't understand how that's even possible when working out on gym daily. I'm not skinny and have lots of fat to burn, but I think my muscles would catabolyze as soon as I fail one meal. Am I missing something about fasting?

serg_chernata 10y ago
You need to work through a short period of adjustment that may feel like hell. Changing your diet is never easy. You may have a headache or just feel drained the first few days but you will adapt. I've said this before, but I've found to have more energy when I eat less food. Or rather, less carbs in particular.
berzerk 10y ago
I'm a bodybuilder and I've been Intermittent Fasting now for about 3 years and have worked out 5 days a week most of that time. It's about all timing your meals properly. I work out in the evening so when I have a noon meal it gives my body enough time incorporate the food for fuel before the workout. My biggest meal is after the workout when my body is at it's anabolic peak. The funny thing thing is that you can still gain weight using this protocol and I've used it very well to pack on some additional muscle so it's not a free-for-all and you still need to eat clean 90% of the time.
- antihero 10y ago
  Wait, I'm confused. You say you've been fasting, but then you also talk about working out 5 days a week and eating after a work out. I thought fasting was like, not eating?
  - serg_chernata 10y ago
    He talked about intermittent fasting
  - jontas 10y ago
    Intermittent Fasting often means long periods between means (like 6pm-11am) but still daily eating. Sometimes it means a day of fasting followed by 2-3 days of normal eating. Either definition would allow eating after 5 workouts/week.
  - ashark 10y ago
    IF can just mean skipping breakfast or something. Apparently I've done it for years without meaning to by just often not being in the mood for breakfast. I wouldn't call it "real" fasting in the way you'd usually think of fasting, though maybe it does have health benefits. I'm skeptical—seems far too mild and too similar to ordinary eating habits to possibly do much, aside from maybe resulting is slightly lower overall caloric intake, which admittedly would be beneficial for most people, however that's not really a special effect of fasting per se, though it could still be an effective way to achieve it, which is fine.
    - metamet 10y ago
      IF would typically involve keeping your feeding window to around 8 hours. So fast while you sleep and skip breakfast. Eat lunch at noon and nothing after 8pm. It's pretty easy and sustainable after a few days. Your body adapts and you don't hunger for breakfast.
      - Globz 10y ago
        I have been doing this since forever...never knew it was called fasting! Ok sometimes I will eat after 8pm on rare occasions.
    - RobertoG 10y ago
      It's funny that skipping break-fast is considered not fasting. I think this thing that we do (we have to eat every four hours or we will die) has nothing to do with the normal state of affairs for most of human history; And I'm not talking only about the palaeolithic here, but my grandparents time also.
      - kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
        Because the three meals a day mantra and "breakfast is the most important meal" is hype to sell more cereal, eggs, and milk. Skipping breakfast isn't fasting if you aren't hungry.
        10y ago
TuringNYC 10y ago
I exercise while fasting during Ramadan. For me, the trick is exercising in the evenings after I've broken my fast. I also hydrate extensively during non-fasting hours.
- noufalibrahim 10y ago
  I second this. I work out a few times a week. Mostly martial arts and doing it during Ramadhan doesn't affect me in any noticeable way. The first 3 or 4 days of the month are a little hard but after that, the habit forms and I don't really notice it.
gadders 10y ago
The Warrior Diet: http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/gain-mass/become-modern-day-warrior-diet-broke-all-rules http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/gain-mass/become-m...
oliwarner 10y ago
That's why both resistance and cardio exercises are a common recommendation for fasters. Cardio to keep the metabolism up, resistance to lay new muscle. But either way, unless you're 70 and immobile, you're not going to fast yourself to death. Eat well and stop putting it off.
thatcat 10y ago
Just don't work out in the fasting period. Maybe even take a week off first. You need this periodically if youre training hard anyway or you risk over training leading to injuries.
beagle3 10y ago
Why would you think that? Do you really think all your metabolism is so fragile that a single missed meal would set it on a different course? Your body burns alcohol first, then carbs and finally fat. When you fast, you only have the last one - but you likely have enough of it for a few days (likely close to a month) before your body needs to break down muscle and convert it to carbs for fuel (gluconeogensis). It may not feel very good in the first few days, you will need a lot more electrolytes, and it will take a few days before your body is doing it perfectly; fasting puts you into ketosis, with all that entails. When I fast, I make sure to exercise more than usual, and especially cover all muscle groups (which I don't religiously do when exercising for fun). It is my experience that my body will keep muscles i use, but not keep those I don't. YMMV. Also, listen to your body but do not extrapolate; the first two days of full fast may seem impossible, and if you extrapolate them to a full week may seem like certain death or madness; but after 48 hours or so, there's a phase change. I stop when I start feeling hungry - usually after a week or so, but once or twice after a month.
- shanusmagnus 10y ago
  You've fasted for a month once or twice, do I read that right? Did you do any kind of write-up about it, a blog, anything? Very interested in your experiences.
  - SteveCoast 10y ago
    Not OP, but FYI people do this all the time on /r/fasting on reddit.
  - bjterry 10y ago
    You may be interested in this case study of a man who underwent a 382-day medically supervised water fast. He lost 276 lb (from 456 to 180 lb). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/
  - beagle3 10y ago
    Indeed - and another handful of week-to-three fasts. No, I did not do any write-up. /r/fasting and /r/keto will probably satisfy your curiosity, but I will mention the following which are not entirely common (or not commonly described): . my B12 normalized from "very low, needs supplements monthly" which it had been in for 6-7 years at that point, to "slightly above normal without any supplement", and is still there some 20 years later. . libido went away for the fast, but came back later . felt perfect, exercised, etc, but friend observed that I was moving much more economically - e.g. that I was lifting my feet only about 2mm above ground while walking. I didn't notice that until he did.
Zaheer 10y ago
Legendary Basketball player Hakeem Olajuwon would Fast (observing Ramadan) during games and would still perform as good as when he wasn't fasting: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3yvhf2/hakeem_olajuwon_during_ramadan_an_analysis/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3yvhf2/hakeem_olajuwon...
- usaphp 10y ago
  A lot of Muslim soccer players (Ozil, Benzema) fasted during Ramadan when they were playing in World Cup, it did not seem to affect them either, but I am not sure if during Ramadan you can't eat at all or just before the sun goes does?
  - insulanian 10y ago
    > but I am not sure if during Ramadan you can't eat at all or just before the sun goes does? You don't eat and drink anything (not even water) from dawn (not sunrise) until sunset. After sunset you can eat and drink as usual.
  - bmm6o 10y ago
    Not a Muslim, but my understanding is that it's a sun-up to sun-down fast. There's typically communal meals to break the fast. I think strictly observed there's also no water during the fast, which would seem to be a real challenge to an athlete, both during the event and for recovery.
agrinks 10y ago
I think that's a reasonable concern, but the data shows that this is not the case: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-mass-fasting-part-14/ https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-ma...
jackmott 10y ago
worrying about your muscles catabolizing when you are trying to lose weight is one of the ways your brain makes excuses to keep eating and stay fat. You are going to lose some muscle, its ok, you will still look better and feel better and perform better.
mebassett 10y ago
I fast regularly. I am also compete regularly in powerlifting and olympic weightlifting competitions. my fasts are total water-only fasts: zero calorie. I continue my normal workout habits (lifting weights, obviously, and the usual run/swim/dance/other-sort-of-cardio) but tone it done a bit, depending on the length of the fast. If I am doing a 3 day fast things barely change. If I am fasting for 5+ days my workouts that week proceed but I take a "deload" week. I take the next week following the fast a bit easier, and by the 2nd week I am lifting the same weights as pre-fast. I don't know a lot about human metabolism or biology, but in my experience my muscles don't suddenly disappear after missing a meal. To repeat - I can fast for up to 3 days without messing up my training.
- ljk 10y ago
  how do you keep your lift numbers up while being on a fast? i can barely manage while on a cut, can't imagine lifting on a fast
tbihl 10y ago
I recommend just trying it out. Pick a day when your performance doesn't need to be perfectly top notch (though it probably won't suffer anyway.) And then just commit. For me, that was not bringing lunch to work: just my water bottle and thermos of black tea. I found no difficulty working out that day or the next. I'm 6'0", 250lb., with certainly too much fat, if that context helps in any way.
joeyspn 10y ago
> but can't understand how that's even possible when working out on gym daily... Fasting while working out is actually a common practice and has been used for a while. I myself tried it 3 months during the end of last year with outstanding results (dropped fat faster than ever). My eating window was from 3pm to 9pm. Training from 6:00pm to 8:00pm. Only Tea and Coffee while fasting. I plan to get back to a fasting routine (6 months) starting in March. Must read: The leangain's guide to Intermittent Fasting: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html ...and you should also check Kinobody's channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7GnzSCDFdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7GnzSCDFdE
Florin_Andrei 10y ago
Your muscles will not disappear in a puff of smoke after one missed meal. However, it is true that you're running on stored reserves while fasting. I would say it's best to avoid being totally sedentary while fasting. But I'd also advise against doing strenuous exercise. One would think this is just common sense. My experience is that a 1-day fast (only water allowed) has very little, if any, impact on the muscular mass. Anything longer than that does have some impact, but it's pretty slow to manifest. Again, common sense?
rsync 10y ago
"I'd like to create a fasting habit just to experiment, but can't understand how that's even possible when working out on gym daily." I fast twice weekly while maintaining a schedule of high intensity weightlifting (power movements, etc.) and BJJ twice weekly along with two unrelated cardio workouts each week. On Mondays I skip breakfast. On Fridays I skip breakfast and lunch. So these are not very long or extreme fasts by any measure, but they are easy to work into a routine and I definitely feel pronounced health benefits. Inflammatory symptoms drop noticeably after the 24 hour fast and I feel very, very fast and light on my feet for running and martial arts. The 24 hour fast (on fridays) happens on my rest day, which presumably you have. I also make it easy by sleeping in that day. The shorter fast (Mondays) is a day that I only do a cardio workout. I agree with you that multi day fasts would be incompatible with a high level of high intensity exercise. I think my single 24 hour fast each week is about the limit of what I could do and still maintain high intensity outputs like powerlifting and martial arts. I strongly encourage you to try it. It's free. It gives you an extra hour or three each week to do things other than eating (and you avoid the context switch of activity-lunch-activity) and it's possible that, like me, you'll feel great.

serg_chernata 10y ago

You need to work through a short period of adjustment that may feel like hell. Changing your diet is never easy. You may have a headache or just feel drained the first few days but you will adapt. I've said this before, but I've found to have more energy when I eat less food. Or rather, less carbs in particular.

berzerk 10y ago

I'm a bodybuilder and I've been Intermittent Fasting now for about 3 years and have worked out 5 days a week most of that time. It's about all timing your meals properly. I work out in the evening so when I have a noon meal it gives my body enough time incorporate the food for fuel before the workout. My biggest meal is after the workout when my body is at it's anabolic peak. The funny thing thing is that you can still gain weight using this protocol and I've used it very well to pack on some additional muscle so it's not a free-for-all and you still need to eat clean 90% of the time.

antihero 10y ago
Wait, I'm confused. You say you've been fasting, but then you also talk about working out 5 days a week and eating after a work out. I thought fasting was like, not eating?
- serg_chernata 10y ago
  He talked about intermittent fasting
- jontas 10y ago
  Intermittent Fasting often means long periods between means (like 6pm-11am) but still daily eating. Sometimes it means a day of fasting followed by 2-3 days of normal eating. Either definition would allow eating after 5 workouts/week.
- ashark 10y ago
  IF can just mean skipping breakfast or something. Apparently I've done it for years without meaning to by just often not being in the mood for breakfast. I wouldn't call it "real" fasting in the way you'd usually think of fasting, though maybe it does have health benefits. I'm skeptical—seems far too mild and too similar to ordinary eating habits to possibly do much, aside from maybe resulting is slightly lower overall caloric intake, which admittedly would be beneficial for most people, however that's not really a special effect of fasting per se, though it could still be an effective way to achieve it, which is fine.
  - metamet 10y ago
    IF would typically involve keeping your feeding window to around 8 hours. So fast while you sleep and skip breakfast. Eat lunch at noon and nothing after 8pm. It's pretty easy and sustainable after a few days. Your body adapts and you don't hunger for breakfast.
    - Globz 10y ago
      I have been doing this since forever...never knew it was called fasting! Ok sometimes I will eat after 8pm on rare occasions.
  - RobertoG 10y ago
    It's funny that skipping break-fast is considered not fasting. I think this thing that we do (we have to eat every four hours or we will die) has nothing to do with the normal state of affairs for most of human history; And I'm not talking only about the palaeolithic here, but my grandparents time also.
    - kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
      Because the three meals a day mantra and "breakfast is the most important meal" is hype to sell more cereal, eggs, and milk. Skipping breakfast isn't fasting if you aren't hungry.
      - 10y ago

TuringNYC 10y ago

I exercise while fasting during Ramadan. For me, the trick is exercising in the evenings after I've broken my fast. I also hydrate extensively during non-fasting hours.

noufalibrahim 10y ago
I second this. I work out a few times a week. Mostly martial arts and doing it during Ramadhan doesn't affect me in any noticeable way. The first 3 or 4 days of the month are a little hard but after that, the habit forms and I don't really notice it.

gadders 10y ago

The Warrior Diet: http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/gain-mass/become-modern-day-warrior-diet-broke-all-rules http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/gain-mass/become-m...

oliwarner 10y ago

That's why both resistance and cardio exercises are a common recommendation for fasters. Cardio to keep the metabolism up, resistance to lay new muscle. But either way, unless you're 70 and immobile, you're not going to fast yourself to death. Eat well and stop putting it off.

thatcat 10y ago

Just don't work out in the fasting period. Maybe even take a week off first. You need this periodically if youre training hard anyway or you risk over training leading to injuries.

beagle3 10y ago

Why would you think that? Do you really think all your metabolism is so fragile that a single missed meal would set it on a different course? Your body burns alcohol first, then carbs and finally fat. When you fast, you only have the last one - but you likely have enough of it for a few days (likely close to a month) before your body needs to break down muscle and convert it to carbs for fuel (gluconeogensis). It may not feel very good in the first few days, you will need a lot more electrolytes, and it will take a few days before your body is doing it perfectly; fasting puts you into ketosis, with all that entails. When I fast, I make sure to exercise more than usual, and especially cover all muscle groups (which I don't religiously do when exercising for fun). It is my experience that my body will keep muscles i use, but not keep those I don't. YMMV. Also, listen to your body but do not extrapolate; the first two days of full fast may seem impossible, and if you extrapolate them to a full week may seem like certain death or madness; but after 48 hours or so, there's a phase change. I stop when I start feeling hungry - usually after a week or so, but once or twice after a month.

shanusmagnus 10y ago
You've fasted for a month once or twice, do I read that right? Did you do any kind of write-up about it, a blog, anything? Very interested in your experiences.
- SteveCoast 10y ago
  Not OP, but FYI people do this all the time on /r/fasting on reddit.
- bjterry 10y ago
  You may be interested in this case study of a man who underwent a 382-day medically supervised water fast. He lost 276 lb (from 456 to 180 lb). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/
- beagle3 10y ago
  Indeed - and another handful of week-to-three fasts. No, I did not do any write-up. /r/fasting and /r/keto will probably satisfy your curiosity, but I will mention the following which are not entirely common (or not commonly described): . my B12 normalized from "very low, needs supplements monthly" which it had been in for 6-7 years at that point, to "slightly above normal without any supplement", and is still there some 20 years later. . libido went away for the fast, but came back later . felt perfect, exercised, etc, but friend observed that I was moving much more economically - e.g. that I was lifting my feet only about 2mm above ground while walking. I didn't notice that until he did.

Zaheer 10y ago

Legendary Basketball player Hakeem Olajuwon would Fast (observing Ramadan) during games and would still perform as good as when he wasn't fasting: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3yvhf2/hakeem_olajuwon_during_ramadan_an_analysis/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3yvhf2/hakeem_olajuwon...

usaphp 10y ago
A lot of Muslim soccer players (Ozil, Benzema) fasted during Ramadan when they were playing in World Cup, it did not seem to affect them either, but I am not sure if during Ramadan you can't eat at all or just before the sun goes does?
- insulanian 10y ago
  > but I am not sure if during Ramadan you can't eat at all or just before the sun goes does? You don't eat and drink anything (not even water) from dawn (not sunrise) until sunset. After sunset you can eat and drink as usual.
- bmm6o 10y ago
  Not a Muslim, but my understanding is that it's a sun-up to sun-down fast. There's typically communal meals to break the fast. I think strictly observed there's also no water during the fast, which would seem to be a real challenge to an athlete, both during the event and for recovery.

agrinks 10y ago

I think that's a reasonable concern, but the data shows that this is not the case: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-mass-fasting-part-14/ https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-ma...

jackmott 10y ago

worrying about your muscles catabolizing when you are trying to lose weight is one of the ways your brain makes excuses to keep eating and stay fat. You are going to lose some muscle, its ok, you will still look better and feel better and perform better.

mebassett 10y ago

I fast regularly. I am also compete regularly in powerlifting and olympic weightlifting competitions. my fasts are total water-only fasts: zero calorie. I continue my normal workout habits (lifting weights, obviously, and the usual run/swim/dance/other-sort-of-cardio) but tone it done a bit, depending on the length of the fast. If I am doing a 3 day fast things barely change. If I am fasting for 5+ days my workouts that week proceed but I take a "deload" week. I take the next week following the fast a bit easier, and by the 2nd week I am lifting the same weights as pre-fast. I don't know a lot about human metabolism or biology, but in my experience my muscles don't suddenly disappear after missing a meal. To repeat - I can fast for up to 3 days without messing up my training.

ljk 10y ago
how do you keep your lift numbers up while being on a fast? i can barely manage while on a cut, can't imagine lifting on a fast

tbihl 10y ago

I recommend just trying it out. Pick a day when your performance doesn't need to be perfectly top notch (though it probably won't suffer anyway.) And then just commit. For me, that was not bringing lunch to work: just my water bottle and thermos of black tea. I found no difficulty working out that day or the next. I'm 6'0", 250lb., with certainly too much fat, if that context helps in any way.

joeyspn 10y ago

> but can't understand how that's even possible when working out on gym daily... Fasting while working out is actually a common practice and has been used for a while. I myself tried it 3 months during the end of last year with outstanding results (dropped fat faster than ever). My eating window was from 3pm to 9pm. Training from 6:00pm to 8:00pm. Only Tea and Coffee while fasting. I plan to get back to a fasting routine (6 months) starting in March. Must read: The leangain's guide to Intermittent Fasting: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html ...and you should also check Kinobody's channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7GnzSCDFdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7GnzSCDFdE

Florin_Andrei 10y ago

Your muscles will not disappear in a puff of smoke after one missed meal. However, it is true that you're running on stored reserves while fasting. I would say it's best to avoid being totally sedentary while fasting. But I'd also advise against doing strenuous exercise. One would think this is just common sense. My experience is that a 1-day fast (only water allowed) has very little, if any, impact on the muscular mass. Anything longer than that does have some impact, but it's pretty slow to manifest. Again, common sense?

rsync 10y ago

"I'd like to create a fasting habit just to experiment, but can't understand how that's even possible when working out on gym daily." I fast twice weekly while maintaining a schedule of high intensity weightlifting (power movements, etc.) and BJJ twice weekly along with two unrelated cardio workouts each week. On Mondays I skip breakfast. On Fridays I skip breakfast and lunch. So these are not very long or extreme fasts by any measure, but they are easy to work into a routine and I definitely feel pronounced health benefits. Inflammatory symptoms drop noticeably after the 24 hour fast and I feel very, very fast and light on my feet for running and martial arts. The 24 hour fast (on fridays) happens on my rest day, which presumably you have. I also make it easy by sleeping in that day. The shorter fast (Mondays) is a day that I only do a cardio workout. I agree with you that multi day fasts would be incompatible with a high level of high intensity exercise. I think my single 24 hour fast each week is about the limit of what I could do and still maintain high intensity outputs like powerlifting and martial arts. I strongly encourage you to try it. It's free. It gives you an extra hour or three each week to do things other than eating (and you avoid the context switch of activity-lunch-activity) and it's possible that, like me, you'll feel great.