5 ms·

Basically he won but lost anyway https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/833510769362825216 https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/833510769362825216

wbhart 10y ago
I watched quite a bit of the actual trial, which was livestreamed. The judge frequently pointed out that he knew his decision would be appealed, no matter what it was, and that it wasn't at all clear how to rectify the problem that the case presented. There were difficulties if it was sent either forward or back. Nobody wanted the case sent back to the district court, and there was no point him making a decision on everything and having his ruling tossed out in a higher court. What was clear throughout the case is that the New Zealand parliament had made its intention clear in the law that there was no such thing as criminal copyright infringement in New Zealand. In effect, the judge made the only sensible decision he could: uphold the intention of parliament and the law, and yet leave the case in a state that would allow Dotcom and company to appeal.
- philliphaydon 10y ago
  As a Kiwi, I hope he wins the appeal! Everything the NZ government has done in regards to this entire case makes me embarrassed to be a kiwi.
  - kogepathic 10y ago
    > Everything the NZ government has done in regards to this entire case makes me embarrassed Not a Kiwi, but I agree the NZ government has mishandled this situation from day 1. I don't think Kim Dotcom should be extradited to the US. The way this was handled just reeks of judicial overreach by the Americans. But, from everything that I've read, and what I've seen on his Twitter, Kim Dotcom is not someone I would want to be friends with. In general he seems to be a bit of a scumbag. He likes the law, but only when it's in his favour. He even tried to finance a NZ political party, which failed spectacularly. [0] If the Americans are intent to prove a point that he's a criminal, instead of trying to get him for copyright violations (which judges have repeatedly shown don't apply in NZ), they could always chose to hit him for money laundering which is a crime in NZ. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom#Dotcom.27s_involvement_in_New_Zealand_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom#Dotcom.27s_involvem...
    - sjwright 10y ago
      It makes sense that we want to see someone get a fair hearing in court, even if we didn't particularly like them. If I ever find myself in a similar position, I would want judicial fairness in my case too. I am reminded of a quote from the film The Contender (2000) "Principles only mean something when you stick to them when its inconvenient."
      - icu 10y ago
        I echo your sentiment, however after being called into jury service in New Zealand, I was dismayed to discover first hand that the probability of a fair hearing in court is based on the degree to which you can afford a defence. My perspective now is to avoid legal problems at nearly any cost, but to also advocate for understanding, respect--and when necessary--defence of the Law. To give an example, I believe Trey Gowdy (the U.S. Representative) is a shining example of this approach and if you are interested I would recommend watching a few of his speeches on YouTube.
    - toyg 10y ago
      Ernesto Miranda, of "Miranda rights" fame, wasn't a particularly savoury character either. You really demonstrate your adherence to principles and the rule of law when you apply them fairly to people you don't like.
    - literallycancer 10y ago
      >He likes the law, but only when it's in his favour. Would you expect a rational actor to like the law when it's against them? >He even tried to finance a NZ political party, which failed spectacularly. How is trying to start a political party is controversial at all? In the 2014 general election, the joint Internet Party and Mana Movement gained 1.42% of the nationwide party vote but failed to win any seats. This isn't even a spectacular failure tbqh, many small parties don't get over the seat limit in their first few elections. In fact, I've only ever seen political parties do well in their first election when they were funded by extremely rich businessmen (meaning billions in net worth).
      - 10y ago
  - xupybd 10y ago
    Yeah, I'm not a fan of Kim. I think mega crossed the line by incentivising popular content. But also as a Kiwi I don't think that the NZ government acted within its own laws in this case. Especially when they raided Kim's mansion.
    - tankenmate 10y ago
      And even more so by handing over the hard drives to the FBI without proper authority or judicial review.

wbhart 10y ago

I watched quite a bit of the actual trial, which was livestreamed. The judge frequently pointed out that he knew his decision would be appealed, no matter what it was, and that it wasn't at all clear how to rectify the problem that the case presented. There were difficulties if it was sent either forward or back. Nobody wanted the case sent back to the district court, and there was no point him making a decision on everything and having his ruling tossed out in a higher court. What was clear throughout the case is that the New Zealand parliament had made its intention clear in the law that there was no such thing as criminal copyright infringement in New Zealand. In effect, the judge made the only sensible decision he could: uphold the intention of parliament and the law, and yet leave the case in a state that would allow Dotcom and company to appeal.

philliphaydon 10y ago
As a Kiwi, I hope he wins the appeal! Everything the NZ government has done in regards to this entire case makes me embarrassed to be a kiwi.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  > Everything the NZ government has done in regards to this entire case makes me embarrassed Not a Kiwi, but I agree the NZ government has mishandled this situation from day 1. I don't think Kim Dotcom should be extradited to the US. The way this was handled just reeks of judicial overreach by the Americans. But, from everything that I've read, and what I've seen on his Twitter, Kim Dotcom is not someone I would want to be friends with. In general he seems to be a bit of a scumbag. He likes the law, but only when it's in his favour. He even tried to finance a NZ political party, which failed spectacularly. [0] If the Americans are intent to prove a point that he's a criminal, instead of trying to get him for copyright violations (which judges have repeatedly shown don't apply in NZ), they could always chose to hit him for money laundering which is a crime in NZ. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom#Dotcom.27s_involvement_in_New_Zealand_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom#Dotcom.27s_involvem...
  - sjwright 10y ago
    It makes sense that we want to see someone get a fair hearing in court, even if we didn't particularly like them. If I ever find myself in a similar position, I would want judicial fairness in my case too. I am reminded of a quote from the film The Contender (2000) "Principles only mean something when you stick to them when its inconvenient."
    - icu 10y ago
      I echo your sentiment, however after being called into jury service in New Zealand, I was dismayed to discover first hand that the probability of a fair hearing in court is based on the degree to which you can afford a defence. My perspective now is to avoid legal problems at nearly any cost, but to also advocate for understanding, respect--and when necessary--defence of the Law. To give an example, I believe Trey Gowdy (the U.S. Representative) is a shining example of this approach and if you are interested I would recommend watching a few of his speeches on YouTube.
  - toyg 10y ago
    Ernesto Miranda, of "Miranda rights" fame, wasn't a particularly savoury character either. You really demonstrate your adherence to principles and the rule of law when you apply them fairly to people you don't like.
  - literallycancer 10y ago
    >He likes the law, but only when it's in his favour. Would you expect a rational actor to like the law when it's against them? >He even tried to finance a NZ political party, which failed spectacularly. How is trying to start a political party is controversial at all? In the 2014 general election, the joint Internet Party and Mana Movement gained 1.42% of the nationwide party vote but failed to win any seats. This isn't even a spectacular failure tbqh, many small parties don't get over the seat limit in their first few elections. In fact, I've only ever seen political parties do well in their first election when they were funded by extremely rich businessmen (meaning billions in net worth).
    - 10y ago
- xupybd 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm not a fan of Kim. I think mega crossed the line by incentivising popular content. But also as a Kiwi I don't think that the NZ government acted within its own laws in this case. Especially when they raided Kim's mansion.
  - tankenmate 10y ago
    And even more so by handing over the hard drives to the FBI without proper authority or judicial review.