4 ms·

Very cool video. I wonder what the fighter jets could actually achieve by pulling up alongside like that? I don't suppose they could do any kind of visual inspe

by aedron 10y ago

Very cool video. I wonder what the fighter jets could actually achieve by pulling up alongside like that? I don't suppose they could do any kind of visual inspection or signaling at that distance - even though one did seem to inch closer at one point. The wording from the airline statement was a bit funny: "the German Air Force deployed its aircraft to ensure the safety of the flight and its guests" - considering that their main purpose was presumably to blow up the jet if it posed a threat. On a side note, I had never seen a video like this before and it really drives home what massive amounts of exhaust these machines put out.

eliaspro 10y ago
> and it really drives home what massive amounts of exhaust these machines put out. It just looks this massove, but that's mistly due to condensation of water vapor. Sure, those engines have a massive throughput of air, but the visible "exhaust" is barely the result of burning kerosene.
- sandworm101 10y ago
  And water vapor from the burnt fuel. Hydrocarbon + o2 = co2+h2o. Those contrails are burnt fuel, just like car exaust on a cold day. The water is a product of burning.
sandworm101 10y ago
Actually there us much they can do. First off they can verify that people are awake. Some depressurization or fire events can see everyone knocked out. They can also verify the exact location and identity of the aircraft. If bad actors are in control the transponders and other locators cannot be trusted. If the pilot isnt responding to the radio, say if he turned to the wrong freq, then reports from passengers/crew of fighter jets will see the pilots recheck all coms gear. Them being there tells the pilots that something is very wrong, that they should start talking asap. The fighters are trying to get the attention of passengers. Thats much safer than getting in front where the crew can see them (crew rarely look out the windows without good reason anyway). Candian cf18s have a light mounted below the pilot to illuminate intercepted aircraft at night. Blink that a couple time and passengers will start screaming about UFOs.
detaro 10y ago
As far as I know they fly close enough to look into the cockpit if they don't get a response. Also, if it is just a pilot error fighter jets appearing should quickly get their attention, have them check radios etc, and/or follow the jets to the nearest airport. Here is an article about US no-fly zones that describes some of the protocols in that case: https://www.wired.com/2017/02/air-force-fighters-keep-rogue-pilots-no-fly-zones/ https://www.wired.com/2017/02/air-force-fighters-keep-rogue-... (After 9/11 a law was added in Germany that would permit shooting down a plane if there is no other option to prevent it being used in a sucessful attack, but said law was scrapped by the constitutional court. There has been some public debate about what to do in case such a situation happens anyways)
twelve40 10y ago
There is an established procedure they have to follow to establish contact with the plane, that presumably all pilots should be aware of - https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/Intercept-Procedures.pdf https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/Intercep...
- chmod775 10y ago
  That link is only relevant to US of A airspace.
  - detaro 10y ago
    These rules are an international recommendation (set in the "Rules of the Air" by ICAO), so while the link technically is US-only the procedure described in it is not.
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      Can confirm (I'm a private pilot). Here is the ICAO intercept procedures document (Appendix 2, starting on PDF page 58): http://www.icao.int/Meetings/anconf12/Document%20Archive/an02_cons%5B1%5D.pdf http://www.icao.int/Meetings/anconf12/Document%20Archive/an0...
      - jlgaddis 10y ago
        Out of curiosity, are these (and/or similar) procedures things that are taught very early on, to pilots of all levels?
        sokoloff 10y ago
        Yes. They are taught pre-solo. I've been flying almost 20 years, so I can't swear exactly whether they were on the FAA knowledge ("written") test or not, but these are taught very early on as part of ground school. Many kneeboards and emergency procedure checklists have them handy as well. Realistically, if you can remember to tune to 121.5 MHz (the universal VHF emergency frequency), that's going to be good enough for all but lost comms. For a lost comms scenario (including electrical failure), the intercept procedures are unlikely to come into play; you'll instead proceed to an airport and land.
kogepathic 10y ago
> The wording from the airline statement was a bit funny: "the German Air Force deployed its aircraft to ensure the safety of the flight and its guests" Not every case of lost communication with an aircraft is due to hijacking. Sometimes it's due to a serious accident on board, such as cabin depressurisation. [0] In these cases, observations from the intercepting aircraft can be vital to understanding the circumstances leading up to a plane crash. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

by aedron 10y ago

eliaspro 10y ago

> and it really drives home what massive amounts of exhaust these machines put out. It just looks this massove, but that's mistly due to condensation of water vapor. Sure, those engines have a massive throughput of air, but the visible "exhaust" is barely the result of burning kerosene.

sandworm101 10y ago
And water vapor from the burnt fuel. Hydrocarbon + o2 = co2+h2o. Those contrails are burnt fuel, just like car exaust on a cold day. The water is a product of burning.

sandworm101 10y ago

Actually there us much they can do. First off they can verify that people are awake. Some depressurization or fire events can see everyone knocked out. They can also verify the exact location and identity of the aircraft. If bad actors are in control the transponders and other locators cannot be trusted. If the pilot isnt responding to the radio, say if he turned to the wrong freq, then reports from passengers/crew of fighter jets will see the pilots recheck all coms gear. Them being there tells the pilots that something is very wrong, that they should start talking asap. The fighters are trying to get the attention of passengers. Thats much safer than getting in front where the crew can see them (crew rarely look out the windows without good reason anyway). Candian cf18s have a light mounted below the pilot to illuminate intercepted aircraft at night. Blink that a couple time and passengers will start screaming about UFOs.

detaro 10y ago

As far as I know they fly close enough to look into the cockpit if they don't get a response. Also, if it is just a pilot error fighter jets appearing should quickly get their attention, have them check radios etc, and/or follow the jets to the nearest airport. Here is an article about US no-fly zones that describes some of the protocols in that case: https://www.wired.com/2017/02/air-force-fighters-keep-rogue-pilots-no-fly-zones/ https://www.wired.com/2017/02/air-force-fighters-keep-rogue-... (After 9/11 a law was added in Germany that would permit shooting down a plane if there is no other option to prevent it being used in a sucessful attack, but said law was scrapped by the constitutional court. There has been some public debate about what to do in case such a situation happens anyways)

twelve40 10y ago

There is an established procedure they have to follow to establish contact with the plane, that presumably all pilots should be aware of - https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/Intercept-Procedures.pdf https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/Intercep...

chmod775 10y ago
That link is only relevant to US of A airspace.
- detaro 10y ago
  These rules are an international recommendation (set in the "Rules of the Air" by ICAO), so while the link technically is US-only the procedure described in it is not.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Can confirm (I'm a private pilot). Here is the ICAO intercept procedures document (Appendix 2, starting on PDF page 58): http://www.icao.int/Meetings/anconf12/Document%20Archive/an02_cons%5B1%5D.pdf http://www.icao.int/Meetings/anconf12/Document%20Archive/an0...
    - jlgaddis 10y ago
      Out of curiosity, are these (and/or similar) procedures things that are taught very early on, to pilots of all levels?
      - sokoloff 10y ago
        Yes. They are taught pre-solo. I've been flying almost 20 years, so I can't swear exactly whether they were on the FAA knowledge ("written") test or not, but these are taught very early on as part of ground school. Many kneeboards and emergency procedure checklists have them handy as well. Realistically, if you can remember to tune to 121.5 MHz (the universal VHF emergency frequency), that's going to be good enough for all but lost comms. For a lost comms scenario (including electrical failure), the intercept procedures are unlikely to come into play; you'll instead proceed to an airport and land.

kogepathic 10y ago

> The wording from the airline statement was a bit funny: "the German Air Force deployed its aircraft to ensure the safety of the flight and its guests" Not every case of lost communication with an aircraft is due to hijacking. Sometimes it's due to a serious accident on board, such as cabin depressurisation. [0] In these cases, observations from the intercepting aircraft can be vital to understanding the circumstances leading up to a plane crash. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522