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I used to have this attitude until I heard harassment stories from two close personal friends in the last year. It's really hard to come forward, especially if

I used to have this attitude until I heard harassment stories from two close personal friends in the last year. It's really hard to come forward, especially if you're early in your career and struggled to get any job in the first place. Apart from potentially being difficult emotionally there are tons of negative outcomes that could come from taking the legal route Here's a list of potential negative outcomes of lawyering up: * getting terminated (remember, at-will employment) * getting blacklisted by other teams at your current employer * getting blacklisted by potential future employers. Court cases are often public and in some industries companies are forced to make ongoing litigation public * having your weird texts, emails, personal life and sexual history being dragged out in a public court case * losing and still having to pay all those lawyer fees * winning but not getting any meaningful compensation * getting harassed on twitter/wherever by the alt-right/gamergate crowd. Yes, people should be getting in trouble but it's a prisoners dilemma where each individual victim is not incentiviced to do anything.

ZeroGravitas 10y ago
I just came from a different thread on HN, where highly compensated software developers were afraid to even point out to their managers that what they were suggesting was a bad idea for the company. People literally fearing for their jobs, because they want to do their jobs well and not just blindly follow orders that will be costly to their employer. So you can imagine how many multiples of that it is when you're trying to rock the boat on harassment.
letientai299 10y ago
I feel sad that there's are so many reasons that stop you to d the RIGHT THING. What is the better way then, beside leaving the company despite doing your job very well?
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  My advice, save some money, get your resume ready and sue. If they fire you, then sue for retaliation as well.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Well this individual did those first two things. I think damage has been done to the company already even if litigation wasn't involved. Sadly a lot of companies only get the message when they need pay damages. I get the impression that money doesn't seem to much of a concern for this company however.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    You missed a step, which is "make sure you have a competing offer in hand".
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    Suing your employer is often viewed in an extremely bad light by future employers. I'd even go so far as to call it "career suicide."
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      You'd have to be at a pretty high level for a future employer to do a public records search on you (not to be confused with a background check), thus the compensation you would receive for a retaliatory firing would likely be in the millions (or tens of millions) of dollars as it is often based on lost income and has a punitive component. You'd likely never have to work again.
      - st3v3r 10y ago
        Many employers of mine have done background checks on me prior to extending an offer. And there's this hip things the kiddos are using called "Duck Duck Go".
leroy_masochist 10y ago
> Here's a list of potential negative outcomes of lawyering up Aren't most of these potential negative outcomes of suing, not lawyering up? Having a conversation with a lawyer who specializes in employment law to get a temperature-check on your specific situation (does it qualify as harassment, what are your options, what are likely outcomes of exercising these options given precedent case law, etc) will not result in "having your weird texts, emails, personal life and sexual history being dragged out in a public court case". Even if you do sue, most lawsuits (especially discrimination ones) are settled out of court, without lascivious details being made public.
- discodave 10y ago
  > Aren't most of these potential negative outcomes of suing, not lawyering up? You're kind-of right, but suing only has teeth if you're prepared to go to court and not bluffing. Engaging a lawyer without suing is just going to cost you money. All of the things I said still suck if you're going through depositions, even if everything isn't being made public. Imagine having to sit in a room full of lawyers and explain why you replied 'haha' to an inappropriate text instead of "I'm forwarding this to HR right now."

ZeroGravitas 10y ago

I just came from a different thread on HN, where highly compensated software developers were afraid to even point out to their managers that what they were suggesting was a bad idea for the company. People literally fearing for their jobs, because they want to do their jobs well and not just blindly follow orders that will be costly to their employer. So you can imagine how many multiples of that it is when you're trying to rock the boat on harassment.

letientai299 10y ago

I feel sad that there's are so many reasons that stop you to d the RIGHT THING. What is the better way then, beside leaving the company despite doing your job very well?

cmdrfred 10y ago
My advice, save some money, get your resume ready and sue. If they fire you, then sue for retaliation as well.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Well this individual did those first two things. I think damage has been done to the company already even if litigation wasn't involved. Sadly a lot of companies only get the message when they need pay damages. I get the impression that money doesn't seem to much of a concern for this company however.
- stale2002 10y ago
  You missed a step, which is "make sure you have a competing offer in hand".
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  Suing your employer is often viewed in an extremely bad light by future employers. I'd even go so far as to call it "career suicide."
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    You'd have to be at a pretty high level for a future employer to do a public records search on you (not to be confused with a background check), thus the compensation you would receive for a retaliatory firing would likely be in the millions (or tens of millions) of dollars as it is often based on lost income and has a punitive component. You'd likely never have to work again.
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      Many employers of mine have done background checks on me prior to extending an offer. And there's this hip things the kiddos are using called "Duck Duck Go".

leroy_masochist 10y ago

> Here's a list of potential negative outcomes of lawyering up Aren't most of these potential negative outcomes of suing, not lawyering up? Having a conversation with a lawyer who specializes in employment law to get a temperature-check on your specific situation (does it qualify as harassment, what are your options, what are likely outcomes of exercising these options given precedent case law, etc) will not result in "having your weird texts, emails, personal life and sexual history being dragged out in a public court case". Even if you do sue, most lawsuits (especially discrimination ones) are settled out of court, without lascivious details being made public.

discodave 10y ago
> Aren't most of these potential negative outcomes of suing, not lawyering up? You're kind-of right, but suing only has teeth if you're prepared to go to court and not bluffing. Engaging a lawyer without suing is just going to cost you money. All of the things I said still suck if you're going through depositions, even if everything isn't being made public. Imagine having to sit in a room full of lawyers and explain why you replied 'haha' to an inappropriate text instead of "I'm forwarding this to HR right now."