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I wholeheartedly endorse the idea that people should learn more physics and math, but I'm not sure the author's personal story supports her apparent message. S

I wholeheartedly endorse the idea that people should learn more physics and math, but I'm not sure the author's personal story supports her apparent message. She apparently went from 6th grade math to graduate quantum mechanics in a year and a half. This is highly atypical and is surely not an example of a "not smart" person overcoming and managing to learn some physics.

aisofteng 10y ago
I find that progression of mathematical maturity highly unlikely. It is possible and I won't discount it, but compressing 4+ years of study into 1.5 is not something that more than a few people can do.
- 112012123 10y ago
  I tend to agree. Having gone through a full undergraduate and graduate physics program, and having met more than a few Nobel Laureate level physicists, I don't think I've met a single one that could go this fast. This is 5 to 6 years of just concentrated college-level physics, to say nothing of all the mathematical prerequisites.
  - keldaris 10y ago
    As a recently minted theoretical physics PhD, I feel rather the opposite way on this. The vast majority of Nobel laureates still went through the usual university progression, which isn't at all designed to cater to the smartest students, but rather to ensure that a substantial part (~15-20% or so in my program, but this varies greatly) of the student population can actually graduate and do at least some research work afterwards. Notwithstanding the actual thesis research, I feel like my program could have easily been compressed by a factor of at least 2x (dispensing with much of the repetition that goes into making sure most people can do the exercises and internalize the concepts) without compromising the final state of my education. Furthermore, if your goal isn't to do research work but rather to be able to follow along an average research article using the basic framework of QFT, you can also cut out much of the lab work. Susan is clearly considerably above average in intelligence and a quick study, and I'm impressed by her perseverence, but I don't think this is at all beyond what any good theoretical physicist could have done. It's just that they went a different path, going through the university system, a path with its own advantages, but brevity is not among them.
- vixen99 10y ago
  In spite of Susan, seems you're hell for leather determined to set low levels on people's expectations. Albeit in the physical domain (actually it's more restrictive for reasons of actual capacity unlike mental activity)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile has something to say on the subject.
  - jackmott 10y ago
    There is something to be said for realism. The four minute mile didn't just topple for psychological reasons. It happened due to the development of better strategy (pacers), and continued to drop from there due to better training, better track materials, better shoes. The idea that it was purely a mental barrier is popular mythology.
- paulpauper 10y ago
  her IQ could literally be one in a billion rarity
- brianon99 10y ago
  That is definitely 5-6 years of study, because QFT is not taught in undergrad level in most cases.
paulpauper 10y ago
It def. seems unlikely to be able to learn advanced math and physics so quickly unless you have an IQ of 160+ or something, in which case why in the 21st century America with modern schooling and education, why would someone with such a high IQ enter college not knowing 6th grade math. I'm not a teacher, but aren't there clues of profound giftedness that manifest early in life? EDIT: she was homeschooled, which explains it...more info https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2016/8/15/20-unconventional-books-that-changed-my-life https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2016/8/15/20-unconventiona... Obv. profoundly smart The question is, is her almost overnight success reproducible by other smart people. Let's say you know calculus and linear algebra, QM is doable, I suppose. But still...mind blown. Even Ed Witten with a physicist for a dad still took 4-5 years to learn the stuff.
- selimthegrim 10y ago
  There are stories floating around where Ed Witten supposedly tore through Jackson in two weeks flat.
- dvtv75 10y ago
  I was under the impression that, due to the changes in the brain's plasticity, if you didn't pick up maths before a certain age you probably wouldn't be able to pick it up with ease after that. If this is correct, and she was older than that age, then there's a good possibility that there's not just IQ involved here.
cbennett 10y ago
The author's story is undoubtedly inspirational, to the point of being on the verge of unbelievable; and yet, the titular goal seems positively unattainable for not only average folk , but even above average folks , and possibly reserved just for those with an iq of 125/130+ (at least 2stdevs+) to even have a go at such an auto-didactic trial by fire at the frontiers of physics. What may be MORE interesting to see, not just for HN folks but in general, would be a parameterized set of possible/reachable (as well as 'stretch') goals, for folks interested in learning more about math/physics/cs at various bands of natural/innate ability. While these bands may not be set in stone and raw effort may help level up someone up one tier above their 'home' range, it is for instance frankly impossible for at least 99% of folks to ever become competent at QFT - and likely, 95-99% cannot even grok it in part.

aisofteng 10y ago

I find that progression of mathematical maturity highly unlikely. It is possible and I won't discount it, but compressing 4+ years of study into 1.5 is not something that more than a few people can do.

112012123 10y ago
I tend to agree. Having gone through a full undergraduate and graduate physics program, and having met more than a few Nobel Laureate level physicists, I don't think I've met a single one that could go this fast. This is 5 to 6 years of just concentrated college-level physics, to say nothing of all the mathematical prerequisites.
- keldaris 10y ago
  As a recently minted theoretical physics PhD, I feel rather the opposite way on this. The vast majority of Nobel laureates still went through the usual university progression, which isn't at all designed to cater to the smartest students, but rather to ensure that a substantial part (~15-20% or so in my program, but this varies greatly) of the student population can actually graduate and do at least some research work afterwards. Notwithstanding the actual thesis research, I feel like my program could have easily been compressed by a factor of at least 2x (dispensing with much of the repetition that goes into making sure most people can do the exercises and internalize the concepts) without compromising the final state of my education. Furthermore, if your goal isn't to do research work but rather to be able to follow along an average research article using the basic framework of QFT, you can also cut out much of the lab work. Susan is clearly considerably above average in intelligence and a quick study, and I'm impressed by her perseverence, but I don't think this is at all beyond what any good theoretical physicist could have done. It's just that they went a different path, going through the university system, a path with its own advantages, but brevity is not among them.
vixen99 10y ago
In spite of Susan, seems you're hell for leather determined to set low levels on people's expectations. Albeit in the physical domain (actually it's more restrictive for reasons of actual capacity unlike mental activity)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile has something to say on the subject.
- jackmott 10y ago
  There is something to be said for realism. The four minute mile didn't just topple for psychological reasons. It happened due to the development of better strategy (pacers), and continued to drop from there due to better training, better track materials, better shoes. The idea that it was purely a mental barrier is popular mythology.
paulpauper 10y ago
her IQ could literally be one in a billion rarity
brianon99 10y ago
That is definitely 5-6 years of study, because QFT is not taught in undergrad level in most cases.

paulpauper 10y ago

It def. seems unlikely to be able to learn advanced math and physics so quickly unless you have an IQ of 160+ or something, in which case why in the 21st century America with modern schooling and education, why would someone with such a high IQ enter college not knowing 6th grade math. I'm not a teacher, but aren't there clues of profound giftedness that manifest early in life? EDIT: she was homeschooled, which explains it...more info https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2016/8/15/20-unconventional-books-that-changed-my-life https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2016/8/15/20-unconventiona... Obv. profoundly smart The question is, is her almost overnight success reproducible by other smart people. Let's say you know calculus and linear algebra, QM is doable, I suppose. But still...mind blown. Even Ed Witten with a physicist for a dad still took 4-5 years to learn the stuff.

selimthegrim 10y ago
There are stories floating around where Ed Witten supposedly tore through Jackson in two weeks flat.
dvtv75 10y ago
I was under the impression that, due to the changes in the brain's plasticity, if you didn't pick up maths before a certain age you probably wouldn't be able to pick it up with ease after that. If this is correct, and she was older than that age, then there's a good possibility that there's not just IQ involved here.

cbennett 10y ago

The author's story is undoubtedly inspirational, to the point of being on the verge of unbelievable; and yet, the titular goal seems positively unattainable for not only average folk , but even above average folks , and possibly reserved just for those with an iq of 125/130+ (at least 2stdevs+) to even have a go at such an auto-didactic trial by fire at the frontiers of physics. What may be MORE interesting to see, not just for HN folks but in general, would be a parameterized set of possible/reachable (as well as 'stretch') goals, for folks interested in learning more about math/physics/cs at various bands of natural/innate ability. While these bands may not be set in stone and raw effort may help level up someone up one tier above their 'home' range, it is for instance frankly impossible for at least 99% of folks to ever become competent at QFT - and likely, 95-99% cannot even grok it in part.