5 ms·

Sure, but what's the alternative, especially in a case like this? Your manager is engaging in harassment, HR is where you "should" raise this. Her following pr

by blawson 10y ago

Sure, but what's the alternative, especially in a case like this? Your manager is engaging in harassment, HR is where you "should" raise this. Her following protocol also makes her case stronger I would argue. You gave your company the chance to make things right. After that I'd say the gloves could come off if that's the route you want to go.

pjmlp 10y ago
In countries where unions do work, that is another door to go search for help.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > In countries where unions do work, that is another door to go search for help. That assumes your union rep is inclined to help you. In practice (not principle), they have the same incentives as the other managers and HR do in this story. The union rep could decide that the harasser is more important to their union, politically, than you are, and decide not to take action. Plus, the union can simply terminate your membership as retaliation. For a closed shop, that's equivalent to firing you, but without many of the legal protections that come against wrongful termination.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Which is why I added the remark "do work", not when they are just yet another way to take vacations.
    - chimeracoder 10y ago
      > Which is why I added the remark "[in countries where unions] do work", not when they are just yet another way to take vacations. That's not a matter that's specific to a particular country, though. It's inherent in the nature of a union structure (and arguably inherent in the nature of any hierarchical human structure, which is a superset of "unions"). You can find situations like the one I described in any country, not just the US.
      - nzp 10y ago
        Inherent in hierarchical structures, yes, but unions don't have to be hierarchical. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism There are numerous such functioning unions throughout the world. Small compared to bureaucratic unions, most under various forms of state repression, but very successful and effective in labour struggles they participate in.
  - hkmurakami 10y ago
    Yeah my Union (even researchers and engineers were union members until we became "managers") had its ranks filled with senior folks who were rotating in from corporate. There was more collusion than conflict I think.
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> what's the alternative Contact your state's labour commissioner. If you received stock or stock options, contact your state securities commissioner. Otherwise, suing is tried and true.
- deminature 10y ago
  Suing is a surefire pathway to being made a pariah, case in point Ellen Pao. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins
  - tunesmith 10y ago
    That article doesn't support anything about her being a pariah.
    - afarrell 10y ago
      Anecdotally, I can confirm that most mentions of her on Reddit that I've seen are very pejorative toward her.
      - fnord123 10y ago
        I thought that was because the closed the subreddits focused on harassment. e.g. r/FatPeopleHate. Talking shit about her law suit was just a wedge issue to get under her skin by people predisposed to abusing others.
      - sangnoir 10y ago
        Not sure if your anecdote applies here: as Reddit CEO, she made a number of decisions that were unpopular with mods and users alike - entirely not related to her court action.
        vertex-four 10y ago
        At which point people decided to use her court action as part of their "proof" that she's a "SJW" and therefore to be hated.

by blawson 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

In countries where unions do work, that is another door to go search for help.

chimeracoder 10y ago
> In countries where unions do work, that is another door to go search for help. That assumes your union rep is inclined to help you. In practice (not principle), they have the same incentives as the other managers and HR do in this story. The union rep could decide that the harasser is more important to their union, politically, than you are, and decide not to take action. Plus, the union can simply terminate your membership as retaliation. For a closed shop, that's equivalent to firing you, but without many of the legal protections that come against wrongful termination.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Which is why I added the remark "do work", not when they are just yet another way to take vacations.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > Which is why I added the remark "[in countries where unions] do work", not when they are just yet another way to take vacations. That's not a matter that's specific to a particular country, though. It's inherent in the nature of a union structure (and arguably inherent in the nature of any hierarchical human structure, which is a superset of "unions"). You can find situations like the one I described in any country, not just the US.
    - nzp 10y ago
      Inherent in hierarchical structures, yes, but unions don't have to be hierarchical. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism There are numerous such functioning unions throughout the world. Small compared to bureaucratic unions, most under various forms of state repression, but very successful and effective in labour struggles they participate in.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  Yeah my Union (even researchers and engineers were union members until we became "managers") had its ranks filled with senior folks who were rotating in from corporate. There was more collusion than conflict I think.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

> what's the alternative Contact your state's labour commissioner. If you received stock or stock options, contact your state securities commissioner. Otherwise, suing is tried and true.

deminature 10y ago
Suing is a surefire pathway to being made a pariah, case in point Ellen Pao. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins
- tunesmith 10y ago
  That article doesn't support anything about her being a pariah.
  - afarrell 10y ago
    Anecdotally, I can confirm that most mentions of her on Reddit that I've seen are very pejorative toward her.
    - fnord123 10y ago
      I thought that was because the closed the subreddits focused on harassment. e.g. r/FatPeopleHate. Talking shit about her law suit was just a wedge issue to get under her skin by people predisposed to abusing others.
    - sangnoir 10y ago
      Not sure if your anecdote applies here: as Reddit CEO, she made a number of decisions that were unpopular with mods and users alike - entirely not related to her court action.
      - vertex-four 10y ago
        At which point people decided to use her court action as part of their "proof" that she's a "SJW" and therefore to be hated.