7 ms·

We have a "whiskey club", and regularly go to the pub where I work. We don't do it at lunchtime. We don't do it during the working day. 5:30pm on a Friday? Let

We have a "whiskey club", and regularly go to the pub where I work. We don't do it at lunchtime. We don't do it during the working day. 5:30pm on a Friday? Let's have a glass of whiskey together. Somebody joining/leaving, or we haven't been out together for a while? Let's go to the pub after work one evening. There is a #drinks channel in Slack where people who fancy a drink after work co-ordinate, and several of will grab each other once a week for a couple of pints. That does not mean we are drunk when coding. As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently. Not a problem, I think. The downside is that for people who don't want to engage in this or can't (have to look after family, etc.), it can feel exclusionary, so we spend some time making sure we do things with those people too.

bootload 10y ago
"That does not mean we are drunk when coding. As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently. Not a problem, I think. The downside is that for people who don't want to engage in this or can't (have to look after family, etc.), it can feel exclusionary, so we spend some time making sure we do things with those people too." Sounds like a more balanced view of what I've seen at some companies. Implies grown-ups are in charge.
toothbrush 10y ago
> As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently. Not a problem, I think. Except for the non-drinkers in your team. I suspect that they either a) feel left out, because a non-drinker at a pub has a boring time, and has to keep justifying their empty glass b) probably miss out on important decisions if a majority of the important people in a team are present, which is bad dynamics c) maybe your team doesn't have any non-drinkers. What does that tell you in terms of diversity / inclusiveness? I'm not pointing fingers at you specifically because you mention explicitly making plans around people who don't/won't drink, but i think there should be more awareness around this, especially since it can seep into the culture quite insidiously, and invisibly.
- true_religion 10y ago
  Some workplaces have sporting clubs that people participate in to grow closer to their coworkers. Yet if you don't like tenis, baseball, basketball, golf, or hiking then you are out of luck. Every social activity will exclude people who don't like the activity by default. There's no real working around this. Even if you just have a 'talking' club, you exclude people who aren't natural extroverts or find large group conversations to be maddening. In essence, there's no way to be perfectly fair... so at best you can have different choices to try to be as inclusive as possible with limited time.
  - jonny_eh 10y ago
    Absolutely true, also goes for video games, board games, or even going to movies or baseball games.
- jaxn 10y ago
  I once received a bottle of wine as a Christmas bonus from the founders of the small startup I worked at. I was the only person on the the who didn't drink and was pretty offended. Especially since it was well known that I didn't drink since this company celebrated "beer thirty" every Friday.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Well known you never drank or well known you didn't drink at work?
    - genericpseudo 10y ago
      There is very little good that can happen when a company serves or provides mind-altering drugs to its employees. That includes alcohol.
      - flukus 10y ago
        A lot of good can happen, from a pleasant meal with wine to a fantastic night that the participants will never forget.
bogomipz 10y ago
>"As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently" Is drinking actually bonding though?
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Definitely. Alcohol is a social grease. Facilitates having fun, kills off stress temporarily. All conductive to bonding, even if not strictly necessary.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    I guess we have different definitions of bonding then, because that just sounds like regular drinking to me. In my opinion a bond is forged through some meaningful connection or meaningful shared experience. I just don't find knocking pints back to be meaningful experience. Its a bond that lasts until the pub closes. I say this as someone who drinks as well.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Alcohol does not create a meaningful bonding experience by itself (unless you're out tasting some very rare and special beverage). It matters what you're doing while drinking. Personally, I find hours-long conversations over beers to be quite good at building rapport with people.
      - bogomipz 10y ago
        This is my point, if the drinking doesn't matter so much as the "what you're doing" why does booze need to be involved at all? "hours-long conversations over beers" sounds like getting wasted to me or at at very least tipsy.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        > This is my point, if the drinking doesn't matter so much as the "what you're doing" why does booze need to be involved at all? It doesn't. But it can be, because - besides the "social grease" benefits it confers, which I mentioned before - why not?

bootload 10y ago

"That does not mean we are drunk when coding. As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently. Not a problem, I think. The downside is that for people who don't want to engage in this or can't (have to look after family, etc.), it can feel exclusionary, so we spend some time making sure we do things with those people too." Sounds like a more balanced view of what I've seen at some companies. Implies grown-ups are in charge.

toothbrush 10y ago

> As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently. Not a problem, I think. Except for the non-drinkers in your team. I suspect that they either a) feel left out, because a non-drinker at a pub has a boring time, and has to keep justifying their empty glass b) probably miss out on important decisions if a majority of the important people in a team are present, which is bad dynamics c) maybe your team doesn't have any non-drinkers. What does that tell you in terms of diversity / inclusiveness? I'm not pointing fingers at you specifically because you mention explicitly making plans around people who don't/won't drink, but i think there should be more awareness around this, especially since it can seep into the culture quite insidiously, and invisibly.

true_religion 10y ago
Some workplaces have sporting clubs that people participate in to grow closer to their coworkers. Yet if you don't like tenis, baseball, basketball, golf, or hiking then you are out of luck. Every social activity will exclude people who don't like the activity by default. There's no real working around this. Even if you just have a 'talking' club, you exclude people who aren't natural extroverts or find large group conversations to be maddening. In essence, there's no way to be perfectly fair... so at best you can have different choices to try to be as inclusive as possible with limited time.
- jonny_eh 10y ago
  Absolutely true, also goes for video games, board games, or even going to movies or baseball games.
jaxn 10y ago
I once received a bottle of wine as a Christmas bonus from the founders of the small startup I worked at. I was the only person on the the who didn't drink and was pretty offended. Especially since it was well known that I didn't drink since this company celebrated "beer thirty" every Friday.
- flukus 10y ago
  Well known you never drank or well known you didn't drink at work?
  - genericpseudo 10y ago
    There is very little good that can happen when a company serves or provides mind-altering drugs to its employees. That includes alcohol.
    - flukus 10y ago
      A lot of good can happen, from a pleasant meal with wine to a fantastic night that the participants will never forget.

bogomipz 10y ago

>"As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently" Is drinking actually bonding though?

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Definitely. Alcohol is a social grease. Facilitates having fun, kills off stress temporarily. All conductive to bonding, even if not strictly necessary.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  I guess we have different definitions of bonding then, because that just sounds like regular drinking to me. In my opinion a bond is forged through some meaningful connection or meaningful shared experience. I just don't find knocking pints back to be meaningful experience. Its a bond that lasts until the pub closes. I say this as someone who drinks as well.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Alcohol does not create a meaningful bonding experience by itself (unless you're out tasting some very rare and special beverage). It matters what you're doing while drinking. Personally, I find hours-long conversations over beers to be quite good at building rapport with people.
    - bogomipz 10y ago
      This is my point, if the drinking doesn't matter so much as the "what you're doing" why does booze need to be involved at all? "hours-long conversations over beers" sounds like getting wasted to me or at at very least tipsy.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        > This is my point, if the drinking doesn't matter so much as the "what you're doing" why does booze need to be involved at all? It doesn't. But it can be, because - besides the "social grease" benefits it confers, which I mentioned before - why not?