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What do you expect from a company that has been so many times on the wrong side of the law? http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-fine-chicago-idUSKBN15W03O h

What do you expect from a company that has been so many times on the wrong side of the law? http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-fine-chicago-idUSKBN15W03O http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-fine-chicago-idUSKBN1... http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/14/10772412/uber-fine-california-utility-driver-data http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/14/10772412/uber-fine-califor... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/06/09/uber-fined-800000-in-france-over-illegal-service/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/06/09/uber-fined-... http://time.com/4632430/taiwan-uber-fines/ http://time.com/4632430/taiwan-uber-fines/ http://economia.icaew.com/en/news/january-2017/uber-fined-20m-in-the-us-for-claims-of-misleading-drivers-over-earnings http://economia.icaew.com/en/news/january-2017/uber-fined-20... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2464520/rivalry-between-uber-and-lyft-gets-ugly.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2464520/rivalry-between-uber-... ...

deleted 10y ago
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mightykan 10y ago
I honestly wonder how people here would react if a blog posts like this came out about a company that hasn’t necessarily been in the news for this many past bad behavior. Would we still condemn that company or would we blame the victim, as is the case usually?
- ivraatiems 10y ago
  We've seen that with Github[1]. The debate on HN was much more lively and less one-sided[2], in that there were many more people trying to excuse what Github was doing or bring into question Horvath's story. Whether that's a good thing or not... [1] https://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes-sexism-and-intimidation-behind-her-github-exit/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describe... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7408055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7408055
davesque 10y ago
Was the first thing I thought about when I read this article.
HerraBRE 10y ago
The parent comment may seem a bit flippant, but the underlying question is a good one - why do talented, non-toxic people seek employment with companies that are well known to have such terrible culture? I'm not in the Valley, so all the information I have about Uber's culture is through popular media, but ever since I first heart the company's name it was linked to scandal, poor ethics and/or misogyny. Talented software developers are a privileged bunch, especially on the West Coast U.S. we are sought after and can pick and choose employers. Why would anyone choose Uber, especially a talented woman? Do SW devs just not realize how much power and choice they have? Or do people really just choose to work for unethical businesses because they expect a good paycheck? If it's the latter, what does that say about their own personal ethics? To be clear, I don't honestly believe the majority of Uber's staff are bad people. But that leaves me genuinely baffled as to what they are doing there in the first place.
- sleepychu 10y ago
  I wonder whether it's bad everywhere so staying made sense. Also you have to remember that HR don't like gaps on the resume or lots of short hops, they also don't want a "trouble maker". I didn't know of ubers reputation until late last year, maybe it's not as pervasive as it feels to you.
- amyjess 10y ago
  > Do SW devs just not realize how much power and choice they have? Or do people really just choose to work for unethical businesses because they expect a good paycheck? I used to work for a company that mistreated me (no, they didn't pay me well either). Getting out felt like getting out of an abusive relationship, and I stayed as long as I did for the same reasons people stay in abusive relationships: I thought I was worthless and that no other company would hire me. Before that company, I had been unemployed for two years thanks to the combination of the financial crisis and my own lack of experience. When I interviewed with them, I was ready to end it if I didn't get an offer because my extended unemployment had just run out. Thankfully, I got the offer, and I wound up working there for 2.75 years before I got out. I believed that I had to stick with them because they gave me an offer when I was broke, desperate, and suicidal. As the problems kept piling up and piling up, I stayed because I was too afraid to put myself out there because I felt like I was a worthless person and deserved a company that would treat me like the worthless person I am. Eventually, things got so bad that I applied to several companies at once in a fit of rage, and one of them got back to me with a coding test, then a phone interview, then an in-person interview, and finally an offer, at which point I had the pleasure of putting my notice on my boss's desk. It's been over two years since I got out, and I'm glad for it. The company I jumped ship to ended up not working out in the long run -- a little over a year in, I got caught up in a layoff that took out 1/3 of the company -- but I eventually landed at my current job, which is by far and above the best company I've worked for, and I'm really glad I'm here and not still stuck at that abusive place.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mightykan 10y ago

I honestly wonder how people here would react if a blog posts like this came out about a company that hasn’t necessarily been in the news for this many past bad behavior. Would we still condemn that company or would we blame the victim, as is the case usually?

ivraatiems 10y ago
We've seen that with Github[1]. The debate on HN was much more lively and less one-sided[2], in that there were many more people trying to excuse what Github was doing or bring into question Horvath's story. Whether that's a good thing or not... [1] https://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes-sexism-and-intimidation-behind-her-github-exit/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describe... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7408055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7408055

davesque 10y ago

Was the first thing I thought about when I read this article.

HerraBRE 10y ago

The parent comment may seem a bit flippant, but the underlying question is a good one - why do talented, non-toxic people seek employment with companies that are well known to have such terrible culture? I'm not in the Valley, so all the information I have about Uber's culture is through popular media, but ever since I first heart the company's name it was linked to scandal, poor ethics and/or misogyny. Talented software developers are a privileged bunch, especially on the West Coast U.S. we are sought after and can pick and choose employers. Why would anyone choose Uber, especially a talented woman? Do SW devs just not realize how much power and choice they have? Or do people really just choose to work for unethical businesses because they expect a good paycheck? If it's the latter, what does that say about their own personal ethics? To be clear, I don't honestly believe the majority of Uber's staff are bad people. But that leaves me genuinely baffled as to what they are doing there in the first place.

sleepychu 10y ago
I wonder whether it's bad everywhere so staying made sense. Also you have to remember that HR don't like gaps on the resume or lots of short hops, they also don't want a "trouble maker". I didn't know of ubers reputation until late last year, maybe it's not as pervasive as it feels to you.
amyjess 10y ago
> Do SW devs just not realize how much power and choice they have? Or do people really just choose to work for unethical businesses because they expect a good paycheck? I used to work for a company that mistreated me (no, they didn't pay me well either). Getting out felt like getting out of an abusive relationship, and I stayed as long as I did for the same reasons people stay in abusive relationships: I thought I was worthless and that no other company would hire me. Before that company, I had been unemployed for two years thanks to the combination of the financial crisis and my own lack of experience. When I interviewed with them, I was ready to end it if I didn't get an offer because my extended unemployment had just run out. Thankfully, I got the offer, and I wound up working there for 2.75 years before I got out. I believed that I had to stick with them because they gave me an offer when I was broke, desperate, and suicidal. As the problems kept piling up and piling up, I stayed because I was too afraid to put myself out there because I felt like I was a worthless person and deserved a company that would treat me like the worthless person I am. Eventually, things got so bad that I applied to several companies at once in a fit of rage, and one of them got back to me with a coding test, then a phone interview, then an in-person interview, and finally an offer, at which point I had the pleasure of putting my notice on my boss's desk. It's been over two years since I got out, and I'm glad for it. The company I jumped ship to ended up not working out in the long run -- a little over a year in, I got caught up in a layoff that took out 1/3 of the company -- but I eventually landed at my current job, which is by far and above the best company I've worked for, and I'm really glad I'm here and not still stuck at that abusive place.