8 ms·

The funny thing is, I preferred ambitious women, especially when contemplating marriage. It seems easier to get along with someone who has a career and therefo

The funny thing is, I preferred ambitious women, especially when contemplating marriage. It seems easier to get along with someone who has a career and therefore similar goals and troubles and life-rhythm. And a wife with a career is less likely to look for long term alimony in the event of a divorce.

kchoudhu 10y ago
Be ready to have serious discussions about the two body problem when you're in a relationship with an ambitious woman. When opportunities come, someone's going to have to take the hit and swallow the disruption. Men are accustomed to having their way in these matters -- this is not necessarily the case anymore. In my case, it forced me to rejig my career plans and strike out on my own. I'm far, far, far better off for having done so (and so, more importantly, is my family), but at the time, it did seem like the end of the world.
- Pxtl 10y ago
  As a developer who took 7 months off of pat leave, I'd recommend devs seriously thinking about it. A remote working dev has the flexibility to earn a good keep while also letting their partner have the more rigid location and schedule.
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    The year I took off for paternity leave was simultaneously the greatest ("wow, it's fun spending time with my kid!") and worst ("holy crap, we've been leaving women to deal with this?") thing I've ever done. I seriously suspect a lot of jabs directed at feminism would die away if more men took paternity leave and used it as directed (and not, say, as a way to goof off for an extended period of time).
- graeme 10y ago
  So you're not a location independent entrepreneur/freelancer? I was talking about this with my girlfriend recently. She's leaving the city in a year to do graduate studies. I'm a mostly location independent entrepreneur. But, leaving Canadian tax residency is complicated, and there are some big advantages to the fixed office setup I have here, because I do some video production. I was thinking of keeping my residence here, but frequently traveling to visit her. There's some types of work I can do quite easily on the go. I'll only find out how well that works once we actually do it. How did you arrange things?
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    I spent eight years or so working at an investment bank in NYC on the technology side of things while my wife finished up grad school. The pay was good, but the hours and schedule rigidity were not. My wife eventually got a really good professorship halfway around the world. We had a couple of titanic fights about what taking this job would entail -- and we eventually came to the conclusion that we would come out ahead if I quit and started my own company. I'm concentrating on building a portfolio of services now that will provide cashflow for a bigger project later on -- and it's going well. I get to play with the kids all day, write code when I feel like it (mostly late at night) and focus on getting healthier (I've lost about 20 pounds in the last year...no more stress eating on the job). Location doesn't matter because Internet: last year we spent 8 months in Doha, 2 months bumming around Europe and 1 each with family in Los Angeles and Bangladesh. Honestly, I'm surprised more techies don't go down this road.
    - dajohnson89 10y ago
      It's risky.
      - kchoudhu 10y ago
        It worked out for us, but I would be peddling bad advice if I didn't add that I don't recommend doing it without a substantial financial backstop already in place.
        jelliclesfarm 10y ago
        Question: Don't you have to pay tax stateside on income earned outside the USA?
        kchoudhu 10y ago
        After a certain income threshold, yes. The income threshold is actually quite high: 103K of income earned abroad per person in a family is exempt from US taxation, which is a substantial savings. I'm not comfortable disclosing my personal situation in any greater detail in public -- but I'm happy to chat about it over email if you are interested!
- silencio 10y ago
  Yep, this is the rarely-discussed side of finding an "independent"/"ambitious" partner. It seems great on paper to be "equal" but it's not so simple. I've broken off relationships over partners refusing to even humor a discussion. Thankfully the person I married is far more willing to face my ambitions and discuss compromises and other options. We've run the gamut from me pursuing med school to SAHM-hood (and SAHD for him, too) - which, despite society generally looking down on childrearing, I think it's possible and great for someone to be ambitious about it. Alimony is a bit amusing to consider from my perspective, then. It's being seen here and elsewhere as a bit of a "woman takes my hard-earned money" thing. I could easily think the opposite! I'm not sure all these people would necessarily appreciate being on the end of that kind of criticism if they made any sacrifices for my ambition that created an imbalance :) And with my relationship and aiming to work with my partner as much as possible for the benefit of our family, I wouldn't begrudge spousal support so easily, even if we split acrimoniously.
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    I have a feeling that a lot of the people ripping on alimony in this thread and elsewhere on the 'net were/are not ready for the deprioritization of self and concomitant promotion of "us"[1] inherent in marriage. [1] Note use of "us" and not "other". You aren't putting the other person on a pedestal here!
  - sheepmullet 10y ago
    > of that kind of criticism if they made any sacrifices for my ambition that created an imbalance :) The reason alimony is unfair is marriage is a two way street and alimony is not. I work 60+ hours a week in a high stress role. I come home at 6pm and spend a couple of hours playing with my kids. Then my wife gets them ready for bed while I do another hour or so of work. Finally around 9 or 930pm I sit down with my wife and we relax together for another hour or so. What would happen if we divorced? I'd get to see my kids every second weekend and I'd lose all my emotional support. Without my partners support I couldn't handle my 60+ hours of high stress work each week. And I'd like to see my kids more often. I could easily take a 60% pay cut and drop my hours to a sustainable 25-30/week but I'll end up in prison due to my states alimony laws.
beagle3 10y ago
She might be too ambitious to have kids (or might want to wait until her career is sufficiently advanced). This might be fine for some, but not for others. Also, the global implications of this are described in this documentary[0] The other issue is location/lifestyle: even if all else is agreed, it often becomes impossible to decide where to live (or to stay in one place) when both partners are ambitious. I am not passing value judgement here - different strokes for different folks. But the strokes must match for a married couple, if it is going to work out. [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
zerg2k 10y ago
I hate to break it up to you but when someone has the advantage of getting money for free ( alimony ) and normally terms of divorce are conflictive you will receive a wake up call from that very ambitious woman
- elastic_church 10y ago
  If both parties are economic equivalents there will be no alimony shock Unless you skimp on legal representation
  - epx 10y ago
    So it is not safe. Not good enough.
  - zerg2k 10y ago
    Women rule in divorce court. Legal representation quality is a fallacy. You are at the mercy of a judge, regardless how good you think your lawyer is. Been there!
epx 10y ago
The fact that a woman can look for alimony shows that system is broken.
- kgwgk 10y ago
  Men can get it as well. (The system may be broken nevertheless.)
- thedevil 10y ago
  I agree that the system is broken. Alimony is usually an atrocity. But I advise against mentioning gender. Turning it into a gender-issue is going to make people dislike and downvote you and kill any hope for reform. It's also unfair to women who pay alimony (my half-sister for example).
- nugget 10y ago
  Many women pay men alimony these days. I know a handful of female MDs whose ex-husbands ''supported'' them through medical school and are now receiving quite generous spousal support. The real problem is a divorce system laden with incentives for couples to rip each other to shreds, with lawyers and others (follow the money) only too happy to help. Watch 'Divorce Corp' on Netflix. It may change the way you think about marriage and divorce in the United States.
- jelliclesfarm 10y ago
  Alimony comes after divorce. I am questioning the validity of something that comes even before that..marriage. I have often questioned the usefulness of marriage in the modern world. What is its function other than the religious aspect of it? There is certainly no moral clause to it..fidelity doesn't have anything to do with a piece of legal paper. Does the state benefit by validating and continuing to reward what is essentially was born as a religious contract between two people. Personally..I think a lot of issues from gender inequality to lgbt inequalities can be resolved if the artificial social contract of 'marriage' loses its validation from courts and the state.
  - morgante 10y ago
morgante 10y ago
Seriously, this paper really surprises me. I find ambition very attractive, especially as a signal for a bunch of other personality traits (intelligence, seriousness, drive, etc.). I understand that there's men who don't, but it really feels like they're either hung up on weird gender norms or trying to find a method of asserting dominance.

kchoudhu 10y ago

Be ready to have serious discussions about the two body problem when you're in a relationship with an ambitious woman. When opportunities come, someone's going to have to take the hit and swallow the disruption. Men are accustomed to having their way in these matters -- this is not necessarily the case anymore. In my case, it forced me to rejig my career plans and strike out on my own. I'm far, far, far better off for having done so (and so, more importantly, is my family), but at the time, it did seem like the end of the world.

Pxtl 10y ago
As a developer who took 7 months off of pat leave, I'd recommend devs seriously thinking about it. A remote working dev has the flexibility to earn a good keep while also letting their partner have the more rigid location and schedule.
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  The year I took off for paternity leave was simultaneously the greatest ("wow, it's fun spending time with my kid!") and worst ("holy crap, we've been leaving women to deal with this?") thing I've ever done. I seriously suspect a lot of jabs directed at feminism would die away if more men took paternity leave and used it as directed (and not, say, as a way to goof off for an extended period of time).
graeme 10y ago
So you're not a location independent entrepreneur/freelancer? I was talking about this with my girlfriend recently. She's leaving the city in a year to do graduate studies. I'm a mostly location independent entrepreneur. But, leaving Canadian tax residency is complicated, and there are some big advantages to the fixed office setup I have here, because I do some video production. I was thinking of keeping my residence here, but frequently traveling to visit her. There's some types of work I can do quite easily on the go. I'll only find out how well that works once we actually do it. How did you arrange things?
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  I spent eight years or so working at an investment bank in NYC on the technology side of things while my wife finished up grad school. The pay was good, but the hours and schedule rigidity were not. My wife eventually got a really good professorship halfway around the world. We had a couple of titanic fights about what taking this job would entail -- and we eventually came to the conclusion that we would come out ahead if I quit and started my own company. I'm concentrating on building a portfolio of services now that will provide cashflow for a bigger project later on -- and it's going well. I get to play with the kids all day, write code when I feel like it (mostly late at night) and focus on getting healthier (I've lost about 20 pounds in the last year...no more stress eating on the job). Location doesn't matter because Internet: last year we spent 8 months in Doha, 2 months bumming around Europe and 1 each with family in Los Angeles and Bangladesh. Honestly, I'm surprised more techies don't go down this road.
  - dajohnson89 10y ago
    It's risky.
    - kchoudhu 10y ago
      It worked out for us, but I would be peddling bad advice if I didn't add that I don't recommend doing it without a substantial financial backstop already in place.
      - jelliclesfarm 10y ago
        Question: Don't you have to pay tax stateside on income earned outside the USA?
        kchoudhu 10y ago
        After a certain income threshold, yes. The income threshold is actually quite high: 103K of income earned abroad per person in a family is exempt from US taxation, which is a substantial savings. I'm not comfortable disclosing my personal situation in any greater detail in public -- but I'm happy to chat about it over email if you are interested!
silencio 10y ago
Yep, this is the rarely-discussed side of finding an "independent"/"ambitious" partner. It seems great on paper to be "equal" but it's not so simple. I've broken off relationships over partners refusing to even humor a discussion. Thankfully the person I married is far more willing to face my ambitions and discuss compromises and other options. We've run the gamut from me pursuing med school to SAHM-hood (and SAHD for him, too) - which, despite society generally looking down on childrearing, I think it's possible and great for someone to be ambitious about it. Alimony is a bit amusing to consider from my perspective, then. It's being seen here and elsewhere as a bit of a "woman takes my hard-earned money" thing. I could easily think the opposite! I'm not sure all these people would necessarily appreciate being on the end of that kind of criticism if they made any sacrifices for my ambition that created an imbalance :) And with my relationship and aiming to work with my partner as much as possible for the benefit of our family, I wouldn't begrudge spousal support so easily, even if we split acrimoniously.
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  I have a feeling that a lot of the people ripping on alimony in this thread and elsewhere on the 'net were/are not ready for the deprioritization of self and concomitant promotion of "us"[1] inherent in marriage. [1] Note use of "us" and not "other". You aren't putting the other person on a pedestal here!
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  > of that kind of criticism if they made any sacrifices for my ambition that created an imbalance :) The reason alimony is unfair is marriage is a two way street and alimony is not. I work 60+ hours a week in a high stress role. I come home at 6pm and spend a couple of hours playing with my kids. Then my wife gets them ready for bed while I do another hour or so of work. Finally around 9 or 930pm I sit down with my wife and we relax together for another hour or so. What would happen if we divorced? I'd get to see my kids every second weekend and I'd lose all my emotional support. Without my partners support I couldn't handle my 60+ hours of high stress work each week. And I'd like to see my kids more often. I could easily take a 60% pay cut and drop my hours to a sustainable 25-30/week but I'll end up in prison due to my states alimony laws.

beagle3 10y ago

She might be too ambitious to have kids (or might want to wait until her career is sufficiently advanced). This might be fine for some, but not for others. Also, the global implications of this are described in this documentary[0] The other issue is location/lifestyle: even if all else is agreed, it often becomes impossible to decide where to live (or to stay in one place) when both partners are ambitious. I am not passing value judgement here - different strokes for different folks. But the strokes must match for a married couple, if it is going to work out. [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

zerg2k 10y ago

I hate to break it up to you but when someone has the advantage of getting money for free ( alimony ) and normally terms of divorce are conflictive you will receive a wake up call from that very ambitious woman

elastic_church 10y ago
If both parties are economic equivalents there will be no alimony shock Unless you skimp on legal representation
- epx 10y ago
  So it is not safe. Not good enough.
- zerg2k 10y ago
  Women rule in divorce court. Legal representation quality is a fallacy. You are at the mercy of a judge, regardless how good you think your lawyer is. Been there!

epx 10y ago

The fact that a woman can look for alimony shows that system is broken.

kgwgk 10y ago
Men can get it as well. (The system may be broken nevertheless.)
thedevil 10y ago
I agree that the system is broken. Alimony is usually an atrocity. But I advise against mentioning gender. Turning it into a gender-issue is going to make people dislike and downvote you and kill any hope for reform. It's also unfair to women who pay alimony (my half-sister for example).
nugget 10y ago
Many women pay men alimony these days. I know a handful of female MDs whose ex-husbands ''supported'' them through medical school and are now receiving quite generous spousal support. The real problem is a divorce system laden with incentives for couples to rip each other to shreds, with lawyers and others (follow the money) only too happy to help. Watch 'Divorce Corp' on Netflix. It may change the way you think about marriage and divorce in the United States.
jelliclesfarm 10y ago
Alimony comes after divorce. I am questioning the validity of something that comes even before that..marriage. I have often questioned the usefulness of marriage in the modern world. What is its function other than the religious aspect of it? There is certainly no moral clause to it..fidelity doesn't have anything to do with a piece of legal paper. Does the state benefit by validating and continuing to reward what is essentially was born as a religious contract between two people. Personally..I think a lot of issues from gender inequality to lgbt inequalities can be resolved if the artificial social contract of 'marriage' loses its validation from courts and the state.
- morgante 10y ago

morgante 10y ago

Seriously, this paper really surprises me. I find ambition very attractive, especially as a signal for a bunch of other personality traits (intelligence, seriousness, drive, etc.). I understand that there's men who don't, but it really feels like they're either hung up on weird gender norms or trying to find a method of asserting dominance.