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a good programmer should be able to identify bad companies to work for, which could solve many of the issues displayed in the article. it's much like choosing a

a good programmer should be able to identify bad companies to work for, which could solve many of the issues displayed in the article. it's much like choosing a good life partner - choosing a good life partner (instead of a crazy one) will save you from many troubles that you would encounter if you married the wrong person in the first place. ps: i need to tell this more to myself. i already made bad choices regarding where i work, which forced me to quit those jobs at the end.. (edit: spacing)

alkonaut 10y ago
I think a lot of this sentiment overlooks the fact that in most cities the number of software companies is very limited - perhaps allowing one switch in a career if there are huge problems or conflicts, but certainly not enough to allow switching due to e.g poor development practices. What's worse, in these places the poor devs tend to stick around while talented ones leave because they either accept moving or they can find remote work due to good connections or nice SO/GH profiles.
- lettersdigits 10y ago
  you are removing a lot of personal responsibility from the guy who is looking for the job. If you are born in a 'bad' place (regardless of the reason for it being 'bad' - a violent/poor neighborhood, a city without hope for jobs, a small country-side town with no tech industry at all, etc. etc.) - you should be responsible for improving your life/moving to a better city/etc. to analogize from soccer: Messi plays at Bercelona, but is from argentina. Ronaldo plays at Real Radrid, but is from portugal. if ronaldo stayed in portugal, which teams would he be able to play with that would even become close to matching real madrid ? same goes for messi and barcelona. he could have said something like 'i was born in argentina, and no one here plays soccer like barceolna/real madrid. therefore - i will not play soccer because i was born in the wrong place'
  - alkonaut 10y ago
    I think a lot of what you are saying makes sense, but also at some age and family status (kids in schools etc) moving doesn't make sense any more, or has more downsides than one is trying to avoid. Obviously one could have thought of this before marrying and putting kids in school in the town with one tech firm - but that doesn't make it any less a reality for a lot of people. Saying "kids we have to move because dads colleagues refuse to do proper peer reviews" just doesn't taste right :)
    - lettersdigits 10y ago
      > Obviously one could have thought of this before marrying and putting kids in school in the town with one tech firm this was going to be my response, but then you said it yourself :) The more intelligent and self-responsible act (which is hard, i know) would be to move to a better place before making extremely serious life choices such as marrying and having kids. same goes for partner finding - don't marry a crazy partner and then say 'I married a crazy partner and now we have 2 mutual children. i cannot leave, i am stuck with this crazy person who is also the parent of my children.' and i know it is hard to find a non-'crazy' employer and a non-'crazy' partner- but this should be your goal and target, shouldn't it ? also, you get better as time goes by, even if you don't want to (as long as you are a bit intelligent) - bad companies/life partners will present themselves as red-flags on an interview/date . and it is your responsibility to detect those red flags . (edit: refactor the last paragraph)
      - alkonaut 10y ago
        I guess what I'm saying is that a) job market is only one factor in deciding on where to live. A partners job situation, access to other things in life, being close to family etc often weighs in, and is often even more important than other factors. Obviously after such a choice one shouldn't be whining about limited job market - but the point is that only improving things by leaving bad companies is not always the solution. For many it's important to be able to change bad culture as well. aspect b) is that company environments change, and the fun startup can become a terrible enterprise in a decade. I wouldn't advise against working in tech in small towns because of the risk of getting stuck in the only gig in town. I would however advise that it be factored into that career decision. One might need to fight to improve company culture, whereas in Silicon Valley one would instead take a job across the street. I'd also recommend keeping an active contact network and online profile so you can get remote work should it be necessary.
  - projektir 10y ago
    > If you are born in a 'bad' place (regardless of the reason for it being 'bad' - a violent/poor neighborhood, a city without hope for jobs, a small country-side town with no tech industry at all, etc. etc.) - you should be responsible for improving your life/moving to a better city/etc. Most people born in bad places can't get out of them in large part because they're bad, since the effects of that propagate through. Why should the responsibility for a bad place, and subsequently improving it or getting out of it be placed on a person who wasn't the one to make it bad? People who can get out of bad places are the lucky ones.
projektir 10y ago
Given that "bad programmer" is a loaded term, I really don't think it's a good idea to expand it so much.

alkonaut 10y ago

I think a lot of this sentiment overlooks the fact that in most cities the number of software companies is very limited - perhaps allowing one switch in a career if there are huge problems or conflicts, but certainly not enough to allow switching due to e.g poor development practices. What's worse, in these places the poor devs tend to stick around while talented ones leave because they either accept moving or they can find remote work due to good connections or nice SO/GH profiles.

lettersdigits 10y ago
you are removing a lot of personal responsibility from the guy who is looking for the job. If you are born in a 'bad' place (regardless of the reason for it being 'bad' - a violent/poor neighborhood, a city without hope for jobs, a small country-side town with no tech industry at all, etc. etc.) - you should be responsible for improving your life/moving to a better city/etc. to analogize from soccer: Messi plays at Bercelona, but is from argentina. Ronaldo plays at Real Radrid, but is from portugal. if ronaldo stayed in portugal, which teams would he be able to play with that would even become close to matching real madrid ? same goes for messi and barcelona. he could have said something like 'i was born in argentina, and no one here plays soccer like barceolna/real madrid. therefore - i will not play soccer because i was born in the wrong place'
- alkonaut 10y ago
  I think a lot of what you are saying makes sense, but also at some age and family status (kids in schools etc) moving doesn't make sense any more, or has more downsides than one is trying to avoid. Obviously one could have thought of this before marrying and putting kids in school in the town with one tech firm - but that doesn't make it any less a reality for a lot of people. Saying "kids we have to move because dads colleagues refuse to do proper peer reviews" just doesn't taste right :)
  - lettersdigits 10y ago
    > Obviously one could have thought of this before marrying and putting kids in school in the town with one tech firm this was going to be my response, but then you said it yourself :) The more intelligent and self-responsible act (which is hard, i know) would be to move to a better place before making extremely serious life choices such as marrying and having kids. same goes for partner finding - don't marry a crazy partner and then say 'I married a crazy partner and now we have 2 mutual children. i cannot leave, i am stuck with this crazy person who is also the parent of my children.' and i know it is hard to find a non-'crazy' employer and a non-'crazy' partner- but this should be your goal and target, shouldn't it ? also, you get better as time goes by, even if you don't want to (as long as you are a bit intelligent) - bad companies/life partners will present themselves as red-flags on an interview/date . and it is your responsibility to detect those red flags . (edit: refactor the last paragraph)
    - alkonaut 10y ago
      I guess what I'm saying is that a) job market is only one factor in deciding on where to live. A partners job situation, access to other things in life, being close to family etc often weighs in, and is often even more important than other factors. Obviously after such a choice one shouldn't be whining about limited job market - but the point is that only improving things by leaving bad companies is not always the solution. For many it's important to be able to change bad culture as well. aspect b) is that company environments change, and the fun startup can become a terrible enterprise in a decade. I wouldn't advise against working in tech in small towns because of the risk of getting stuck in the only gig in town. I would however advise that it be factored into that career decision. One might need to fight to improve company culture, whereas in Silicon Valley one would instead take a job across the street. I'd also recommend keeping an active contact network and online profile so you can get remote work should it be necessary.
- projektir 10y ago
  > If you are born in a 'bad' place (regardless of the reason for it being 'bad' - a violent/poor neighborhood, a city without hope for jobs, a small country-side town with no tech industry at all, etc. etc.) - you should be responsible for improving your life/moving to a better city/etc. Most people born in bad places can't get out of them in large part because they're bad, since the effects of that propagate through. Why should the responsibility for a bad place, and subsequently improving it or getting out of it be placed on a person who wasn't the one to make it bad? People who can get out of bad places are the lucky ones.

projektir 10y ago

Given that "bad programmer" is a loaded term, I really don't think it's a good idea to expand it so much.