3 ms·

Have you tried melatonin? I have tried a lot of things to help get to sleep at a specific time and melatonin isn't great for that. What I do find is that it cau

Have you tried melatonin? I have tried a lot of things to help get to sleep at a specific time and melatonin isn't great for that. What I do find is that it causes me to sleep very deeply, often making it harder than usual to get up the next morning. Since melatonin is a hormone, it's best to avoid taking it for too long or you can get adaptive / rebound effects (i.e., it stops working then you get withdrawal when you stop taking it, making things worse). It's recommended to take for a week or two, then stop and hope it's caused your circadian rhythm to reset (there is some evidence that it can do this). It's often recommended for jet lag and not so much for chronic sleep disorders, for this reason. More info: https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-topics/melatonin-and-sleep https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-topics/melatonin-and-sleep

wahnfrieden 10y ago
Just be careful about what melatonin you take: http://www.consumerreports.org/melatonin/study-questions-ingredient-levels-some-melatonin-supplements/ http://www.consumerreports.org/melatonin/study-questions-ing... Melatonin is also most effective at smaller doses, conterintuitively; try 300mcg instead of the more common 3-5mg doses. Sorry for no source on this, Googling around will help.
- uhhyeahdude 10y ago
  >Melatonin is also most effective at smaller doses, conterintuitively; try 300mcg instead of the more common 3-5mg doses. Sorry for no source on this, Googling around will help. This is not necessarily true. The effects of exogenous melatonin ingestion vary from individual to individual; quantity and quality of the supplement are but two variables, and they do not affect everyone the same way; in fact, they are unlikely to maintain a given measure of "effectiveness" in a single individual over time There are many factors to take into account when it comes to sleep quality and duration; melatonin, as an exceptionally powerful hormone and powerful antioxidant, is something endogeneous. Tinkering with endogeneous hormones while we stil make them is risky. Tinkering with those that are essential to daily life and well-being is not necessarily foolish, but it should be approached with caution and respect. Take a cycle of anabolic steroids for periods during which one is exhausted or overworked; it might work in the short term (if you are male, in good health, and exercise, it probably will), to better increase ability and recovery. However, there is always a risk of forever damaging one's ability to produce those compounds internally. This doesn't happen as often as one might think, because it is understood (both in the performance-enhancement world and the post-35 male world, that there might not be a return ticket - and there are now proven methods for preventing shutdown. Athletic medicine and its human test subjects in the highly networked world of steroid use have understood this for some time, and have made it much safer to take a cycle of testosterone and come back to baseline post-cycle; they understand the risks and are willing to take them. TRT patients are ok with the trade-off of meds-for-life in order to feel OK again. I think one would be wise to, at the very least, approach melatonin with caution and know how limited our understanding of hormonal feedback loops, up/down-regulation, cascades and downstream effects... SNP mutations... before taking melatonin. Better to take Zyrem. If you don't know what it is, google it for laughs. You'll never get a prescription; however it is one of the best, simplest sleep medications around. It has the advantage of being simple in a pharmacokinetic and MOA sense, along the lines of z-drugs or *azepams, without most of their most severe drawbacks. Excepting cost of buying it pharma-regulated, the unlikelihood of ever getting a prescription in the first place, and the fact that some people enjoy it to the point of habituation and dependence. The same cannot be said for melatonin, but why go for a master hormone? My sleep sucks, but I've improved it to the extent I care by incremental lifestyle changes. I'm back in school now, and I'm all over the place. Sleep when I can. Stay up until I know, absolutely know that I have done damage to my next-day performance. I don't know how else to get the work done, except cheat. Maybe that's the ticket? It seems like it is more or less accepted, if not spoken of. Oh, I take melatonin sometimes. I take it for it's antioxidant properties. Usually I take other things to clean up my oxidative damage, and have a lot of green tea, but a heavy dose (much more than recommended), every once in a while, seems to do me a world of good. I started taking melatonin off and on when I was sixteen, so I am fairly certain I've done whatever damage there is to do. I feel like crap when I take it regularly, however. Dark room, quiet, no screens, calm evenings, and if at all possible, waking up with the sun - for those in urban areas, this is not natural, or wasn't for me - but if you ge a week outside of civilization, without electronics - see what happens. I can't live like that all the time, but I sure want to. I'm procrastinating, and sleepy. Oh, parent was right about the prevailing wisdom, whatever that means, about melatonin dosage. Currently. And I'm not citing either, because I'm not a professional, just an experienced layperson.
  - wahnfrieden 10y ago
    Thanks for all the good info!
garrickvanburen 10y ago
I built up multiple tolerances to melatonin after ~12 weeks of regular use. The most annoying one: waking up - and being wide awake - after exactly 1 sleep cycle.

wahnfrieden 10y ago

Just be careful about what melatonin you take: http://www.consumerreports.org/melatonin/study-questions-ingredient-levels-some-melatonin-supplements/ http://www.consumerreports.org/melatonin/study-questions-ing... Melatonin is also most effective at smaller doses, conterintuitively; try 300mcg instead of the more common 3-5mg doses. Sorry for no source on this, Googling around will help.

uhhyeahdude 10y ago
>Melatonin is also most effective at smaller doses, conterintuitively; try 300mcg instead of the more common 3-5mg doses. Sorry for no source on this, Googling around will help. This is not necessarily true. The effects of exogenous melatonin ingestion vary from individual to individual; quantity and quality of the supplement are but two variables, and they do not affect everyone the same way; in fact, they are unlikely to maintain a given measure of "effectiveness" in a single individual over time There are many factors to take into account when it comes to sleep quality and duration; melatonin, as an exceptionally powerful hormone and powerful antioxidant, is something endogeneous. Tinkering with endogeneous hormones while we stil make them is risky. Tinkering with those that are essential to daily life and well-being is not necessarily foolish, but it should be approached with caution and respect. Take a cycle of anabolic steroids for periods during which one is exhausted or overworked; it might work in the short term (if you are male, in good health, and exercise, it probably will), to better increase ability and recovery. However, there is always a risk of forever damaging one's ability to produce those compounds internally. This doesn't happen as often as one might think, because it is understood (both in the performance-enhancement world and the post-35 male world, that there might not be a return ticket - and there are now proven methods for preventing shutdown. Athletic medicine and its human test subjects in the highly networked world of steroid use have understood this for some time, and have made it much safer to take a cycle of testosterone and come back to baseline post-cycle; they understand the risks and are willing to take them. TRT patients are ok with the trade-off of meds-for-life in order to feel OK again. I think one would be wise to, at the very least, approach melatonin with caution and know how limited our understanding of hormonal feedback loops, up/down-regulation, cascades and downstream effects... SNP mutations... before taking melatonin. Better to take Zyrem. If you don't know what it is, google it for laughs. You'll never get a prescription; however it is one of the best, simplest sleep medications around. It has the advantage of being simple in a pharmacokinetic and MOA sense, along the lines of z-drugs or *azepams, without most of their most severe drawbacks. Excepting cost of buying it pharma-regulated, the unlikelihood of ever getting a prescription in the first place, and the fact that some people enjoy it to the point of habituation and dependence. The same cannot be said for melatonin, but why go for a master hormone? My sleep sucks, but I've improved it to the extent I care by incremental lifestyle changes. I'm back in school now, and I'm all over the place. Sleep when I can. Stay up until I know, absolutely know that I have done damage to my next-day performance. I don't know how else to get the work done, except cheat. Maybe that's the ticket? It seems like it is more or less accepted, if not spoken of. Oh, I take melatonin sometimes. I take it for it's antioxidant properties. Usually I take other things to clean up my oxidative damage, and have a lot of green tea, but a heavy dose (much more than recommended), every once in a while, seems to do me a world of good. I started taking melatonin off and on when I was sixteen, so I am fairly certain I've done whatever damage there is to do. I feel like crap when I take it regularly, however. Dark room, quiet, no screens, calm evenings, and if at all possible, waking up with the sun - for those in urban areas, this is not natural, or wasn't for me - but if you ge a week outside of civilization, without electronics - see what happens. I can't live like that all the time, but I sure want to. I'm procrastinating, and sleepy. Oh, parent was right about the prevailing wisdom, whatever that means, about melatonin dosage. Currently. And I'm not citing either, because I'm not a professional, just an experienced layperson.
- wahnfrieden 10y ago
  Thanks for all the good info!

garrickvanburen 10y ago

I built up multiple tolerances to melatonin after ~12 weeks of regular use. The most annoying one: waking up - and being wide awake - after exactly 1 sleep cycle.