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>> They had quite a bit of patience with you and you saturated it. > I can't imagine what you're talking about. You don't need to imagine. I explained it very

>> They had quite a bit of patience with you and you saturated it. > I can't imagine what you're talking about. You don't need to imagine. I explained it very clearly in the rest of the paragraph: You sounded like a smart aleck lecturing them the entire time. Maybe you didn't read it?

jMyles 10y ago
> Maybe you didn't read it? I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. So, to be clearer: I meant that I can't imagine what "patience" you are talking about. There was no test or saturation of patience; all these people needed to do was walk away. Simple. They weren't a captive audience, patiently waiting for something to happen. They were doing the wrong thing and obviously uncomfortable with themselves over it.
- wfunction 10y ago
  >> Maybe you didn't read it? > I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. Ad hominem? I'm observing that you're still not reading this, because otherwise it means you're totally ignoring it: >> You sounded like a smart aleck lecturing them the entire time You just keep bashing their behavior, whereas I'm talking about yours. Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what?
  - jMyles 10y ago
    > Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what? Yes. I'm doing just that. I was a bit nervous; maybe my conduct wasn't perfect. But I was not a "smart aleck" or in any sense demeaning to these people. I'm proud of how I handled myself.
    - wfunction 10y ago
      Have you tried asking a few non-STEM folks (whom you don't already know) what they think of your attitude in the video? To me your attitude was very much the condescending "well, ACTUALLY, you're wrong because..." or "well, TECHNICALLY, I'm right because..." attitude that a lot of us nerds have at some point in our lives (been there). People who are successful learn how to convey the same thing without that attitude. It seems like you're just not realizing it and you're stubbornly refusing to believe others when they tell you you have attitude, despite the fact that it's hard for people to tell when they're acting like jerks. For your own sake, ask a few random people whom you don't know, and no, the people commenting on your video (including me) do not form an unbiased sample.
      - jMyles 10y ago
        > "well, ACTUALLY, you're wrong because..." or "well, TECHNICALLY, I'm right because..." Can you point to a timestamp in the video during which I said either of these things (or adopted the attitude which you say they represent)? Yes, of course many thousands of people have seen this video. For years, I spoke to people about it all the time. It has been shown at several conferences. I have received feedback of many stripes from many people in many contexts. And, as you can see, there are detractors even on the comments page who make similarly dubious critiques to the one you're making; we've heard it before. I surmise that, had these police officers happened to have different occupations and they had stopped and detained me as haphazardly and chaotically as they did, your critique might adjust. I was direct, clear, and professional. The only fly in the ointment came from the apparent unwillingness to hear the simple, direct, clear statement that I was not going to show identification. There is no reason for me to have to say this over and over again to adults whose job it is to listen and perceive the language of civic dialogue. Yet I did, and I did so with precisely the tone and attitude that I think is reasonable in a civilized public square (again, give-or-take my nervousness, which contributed a few awkward laughs and such, but did not veer toward "smart alecky.")
        wfunction 10y ago
        > Can you point to a timestamp in the video during which I said either of these things (or adopted the attitude which you say they represent)? 5:35 is one example: > You: Just, in theory, there's a "government-issued ID", which you're presuming that I'm carrying, but you don't know whether or not I'm carrying one... > Officer: I didn't ask for any kind of government-issue ID. > You: But, of course, in the real world, we both know that there is such a thing that most people carry. There's so much attitude here, which I'm guessing you don't realize: 1. You start off by lecturing him as if you're teaching him math... like as if he'd said "x^2 = 4 implies x = 2" and now you're saying "In theory, there's an x, which you're presuming is positive. You don't know if x = 2, so you can't just assume that!" That's not the attitude or tone you use on a stranger, let alone on a police officer. You could've much more politely asked, "But officer, what if I wasn't carrying one? Since that's legal, could we just proceed that way?" or something like that. Something that gets the point across without giving him a lecture. (And I'm sure there's better ways to phrase it too; this is just what I thought of on the spot right now.) 2. Despite the above, the officer went along with your attitude and pointed out an obvious mistake in your logic. The logical response at this point would've been to give him the benefit of the doubt and apologize for alleging the wrong thing, or (if heaven forbid you apologize) just ask what other kind of IDs he'd have found acceptable. Who knows, maybe he'd have been fine with a gym ID that only had your name and photo on it, and you might've been fine with that, since you already basically gave them both anyway? Or if nothing else, you'd have at least learned something too, and you'd have also shown him that you're a willing to learn from your mistakes and that you actually respect him. What did you do instead? You just gave him a sassy response. That was totally unnecessary. And there was at least another obvious instance much later in the video but I don't have the time to listen to it and find it again right now... though the above is clear enough that I shouldn't need to. Finally, notice the fact that you didn't even wait for me to tell you the timestamp before you wrote your disparaging comments. If you don't even know what I'm talking about, shouldn't you figure that out first before moving on? You're so eager to talk back to people that you do it before you even know what they're talking about. That's not good...

jMyles 10y ago

> Maybe you didn't read it? I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. So, to be clearer: I meant that I can't imagine what "patience" you are talking about. There was no test or saturation of patience; all these people needed to do was walk away. Simple. They weren't a captive audience, patiently waiting for something to happen. They were doing the wrong thing and obviously uncomfortable with themselves over it.

wfunction 10y ago
>> Maybe you didn't read it? > I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. Ad hominem? I'm observing that you're still not reading this, because otherwise it means you're totally ignoring it: >> You sounded like a smart aleck lecturing them the entire time You just keep bashing their behavior, whereas I'm talking about yours. Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what?
- jMyles 10y ago
  > Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what? Yes. I'm doing just that. I was a bit nervous; maybe my conduct wasn't perfect. But I was not a "smart aleck" or in any sense demeaning to these people. I'm proud of how I handled myself.
  - wfunction 10y ago
    Have you tried asking a few non-STEM folks (whom you don't already know) what they think of your attitude in the video? To me your attitude was very much the condescending "well, ACTUALLY, you're wrong because..." or "well, TECHNICALLY, I'm right because..." attitude that a lot of us nerds have at some point in our lives (been there). People who are successful learn how to convey the same thing without that attitude. It seems like you're just not realizing it and you're stubbornly refusing to believe others when they tell you you have attitude, despite the fact that it's hard for people to tell when they're acting like jerks. For your own sake, ask a few random people whom you don't know, and no, the people commenting on your video (including me) do not form an unbiased sample.
    - jMyles 10y ago
      > "well, ACTUALLY, you're wrong because..." or "well, TECHNICALLY, I'm right because..." Can you point to a timestamp in the video during which I said either of these things (or adopted the attitude which you say they represent)? Yes, of course many thousands of people have seen this video. For years, I spoke to people about it all the time. It has been shown at several conferences. I have received feedback of many stripes from many people in many contexts. And, as you can see, there are detractors even on the comments page who make similarly dubious critiques to the one you're making; we've heard it before. I surmise that, had these police officers happened to have different occupations and they had stopped and detained me as haphazardly and chaotically as they did, your critique might adjust. I was direct, clear, and professional. The only fly in the ointment came from the apparent unwillingness to hear the simple, direct, clear statement that I was not going to show identification. There is no reason for me to have to say this over and over again to adults whose job it is to listen and perceive the language of civic dialogue. Yet I did, and I did so with precisely the tone and attitude that I think is reasonable in a civilized public square (again, give-or-take my nervousness, which contributed a few awkward laughs and such, but did not veer toward "smart alecky.")
      - wfunction 10y ago
        > Can you point to a timestamp in the video during which I said either of these things (or adopted the attitude which you say they represent)? 5:35 is one example: > You: Just, in theory, there's a "government-issued ID", which you're presuming that I'm carrying, but you don't know whether or not I'm carrying one... > Officer: I didn't ask for any kind of government-issue ID. > You: But, of course, in the real world, we both know that there is such a thing that most people carry. There's so much attitude here, which I'm guessing you don't realize: 1. You start off by lecturing him as if you're teaching him math... like as if he'd said "x^2 = 4 implies x = 2" and now you're saying "In theory, there's an x, which you're presuming is positive. You don't know if x = 2, so you can't just assume that!" That's not the attitude or tone you use on a stranger, let alone on a police officer. You could've much more politely asked, "But officer, what if I wasn't carrying one? Since that's legal, could we just proceed that way?" or something like that. Something that gets the point across without giving him a lecture. (And I'm sure there's better ways to phrase it too; this is just what I thought of on the spot right now.) 2. Despite the above, the officer went along with your attitude and pointed out an obvious mistake in your logic. The logical response at this point would've been to give him the benefit of the doubt and apologize for alleging the wrong thing, or (if heaven forbid you apologize) just ask what other kind of IDs he'd have found acceptable. Who knows, maybe he'd have been fine with a gym ID that only had your name and photo on it, and you might've been fine with that, since you already basically gave them both anyway? Or if nothing else, you'd have at least learned something too, and you'd have also shown him that you're a willing to learn from your mistakes and that you actually respect him. What did you do instead? You just gave him a sassy response. That was totally unnecessary. And there was at least another obvious instance much later in the video but I don't have the time to listen to it and find it again right now... though the above is clear enough that I shouldn't need to. Finally, notice the fact that you didn't even wait for me to tell you the timestamp before you wrote your disparaging comments. If you don't even know what I'm talking about, shouldn't you figure that out first before moving on? You're so eager to talk back to people that you do it before you even know what they're talking about. That's not good...