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The image also has no smell or sound associated with it. In a human's life, it would be like smelling something familiar, but not seeing or hearing anything. Yo

by M_Grey 10y ago

The image also has no smell or sound associated with it. In a human's life, it would be like smelling something familiar, but not seeing or hearing anything. You'd conclude it was just the wind, whatever, and move on. Whatever the mystery might be, you know it's not that familiar thing, because you'd see that. A dog's sense of smell is like that for them, in the way that sight is for us.

smhost 10y ago
I don't know much about brains so this might be a nonsense question, but how sure are we that dogs experience human emotions and that the behavior we associate with human emotions isn't something dogs evolved to take advantage of us? Or is that the same thing as human emotions?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  No one knows what another person, never mind another animal experiences. It's all a matter of inference, and testing which yields consistent results. Dogs certainly appear to be both very aware of the human emotional state, and to have their own emotional landscape. That said, I wouldn't say that they're "human emotions". They're dogs... they're very different, but different and "less" are not the same thing. As for your last point, if that's the case, would that be "taking advantage"? At some point, if the behavior is mutual and mutually beneficial, and no one can tell the difference between sincere altruism and some fundamentally selfish motive... does it matter? Ironically I will say that the view you're considering at the end, when applies to humans is called "cynicism" from the ancient Greek "Kynikos" which meant "Dog-like". This is Cynic, in the philosophical sense, not the pejorative by the way... the belief that people act out of their own self-interest; even charity is done because it makes us feel good. The counter-argument being, "And?"
  - smhost 10y ago
    Huh. I should read more. Also, I meant "take advantage" in a strict sense. I love my dog and she can take advantage of me whenever she wants. <3
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      To be honest, I know what you meant, but I saw an opportunity to pontificate and I leaped on it. Thanks for being a good sport about it, but hey, what else to be expected from someone who loves their pup?
  - woodandsteel 10y ago
    >No one knows what another person, never mind another animal experiences. The word "know" has many different meanings, so it depends which one you are using, and for what purpose. For many practical purposes we often can know perfectly well a good deal of what another person is experiencing. So for instance when we see someone walk up to a door and open it, we know that they saw the door, thought it would be desirable to walk through it, and knew how to open it.
    - ZeroFries 10y ago
      His point still stands that inference is what allows you to make a good guess as to what's going on in another being's mind.
- woodandsteel 10y ago
  I would say yes. For one thing, they have similar behavior responses to similar sorts of situations, like to danger or having another creature doing something it doesn't like (i.e. poking it with a sharp stick). Also they have some similar brain anatomy that lights up, from what I recall. Also they respond to similar emotions in humans, like anger or grief. So it seems something rather similar to human emotions, at least some of them, is going one. However, I doubt that dogs have all the human emotions. And that makes me wonder if dogs have one or emotions that humans don't have. By the way, I want to say this has been a really interesting discussion, lots of relevant points I wouldn't have thought of.
booleandilemma 10y ago
Interesting. In the same vein, I can recognize my own image but I don't think I could recognize my own smell (not as easily anyway).
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  You actually can, but the smell has to be strong, such as the smell of an armpit after not showing for a few days. (Not that I would know anything about that... sniff sniff)

by M_Grey 10y ago

smhost 10y ago

I don't know much about brains so this might be a nonsense question, but how sure are we that dogs experience human emotions and that the behavior we associate with human emotions isn't something dogs evolved to take advantage of us? Or is that the same thing as human emotions?

M_Grey 10y ago
No one knows what another person, never mind another animal experiences. It's all a matter of inference, and testing which yields consistent results. Dogs certainly appear to be both very aware of the human emotional state, and to have their own emotional landscape. That said, I wouldn't say that they're "human emotions". They're dogs... they're very different, but different and "less" are not the same thing. As for your last point, if that's the case, would that be "taking advantage"? At some point, if the behavior is mutual and mutually beneficial, and no one can tell the difference between sincere altruism and some fundamentally selfish motive... does it matter? Ironically I will say that the view you're considering at the end, when applies to humans is called "cynicism" from the ancient Greek "Kynikos" which meant "Dog-like". This is Cynic, in the philosophical sense, not the pejorative by the way... the belief that people act out of their own self-interest; even charity is done because it makes us feel good. The counter-argument being, "And?"
- smhost 10y ago
  Huh. I should read more. Also, I meant "take advantage" in a strict sense. I love my dog and she can take advantage of me whenever she wants. <3
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    To be honest, I know what you meant, but I saw an opportunity to pontificate and I leaped on it. Thanks for being a good sport about it, but hey, what else to be expected from someone who loves their pup?
- woodandsteel 10y ago
  >No one knows what another person, never mind another animal experiences. The word "know" has many different meanings, so it depends which one you are using, and for what purpose. For many practical purposes we often can know perfectly well a good deal of what another person is experiencing. So for instance when we see someone walk up to a door and open it, we know that they saw the door, thought it would be desirable to walk through it, and knew how to open it.
  - ZeroFries 10y ago
    His point still stands that inference is what allows you to make a good guess as to what's going on in another being's mind.
woodandsteel 10y ago
I would say yes. For one thing, they have similar behavior responses to similar sorts of situations, like to danger or having another creature doing something it doesn't like (i.e. poking it with a sharp stick). Also they have some similar brain anatomy that lights up, from what I recall. Also they respond to similar emotions in humans, like anger or grief. So it seems something rather similar to human emotions, at least some of them, is going one. However, I doubt that dogs have all the human emotions. And that makes me wonder if dogs have one or emotions that humans don't have. By the way, I want to say this has been a really interesting discussion, lots of relevant points I wouldn't have thought of.

booleandilemma 10y ago

Interesting. In the same vein, I can recognize my own image but I don't think I could recognize my own smell (not as easily anyway).

enraged_camel 10y ago
You actually can, but the smell has to be strong, such as the smell of an armpit after not showing for a few days. (Not that I would know anything about that... sniff sniff)