4 ms·

$21 Billion for a wall is a lot. Penn & Teller did a show on Immigration. Tthey got a bunch of Mexicans to build a wall. And yes, after it was built, they as

by adekok 10y ago

$21 Billion for a wall is a lot. Penn & Teller did a show on Immigration. Tthey got a bunch of Mexicans to build a wall. And yes, after it was built, they asked the workers to try to get across it. The wall slowed them down by about 2 minutes. Which isn't really worth it. Any wall built along the border will likely be similar in efficacy. And even if the wall is perfect, tunnelling under it won't be a problem. TBH, You'd probably be better off increasing detection along the border. Leave it open, but make sure you catch everyone $21 billion will buy a lot of equipment that can be hidden, and a lot of border patrols.

xienze 10y ago
I think it would be interesting if the internet were around 50+ years ago so we could hear everyone respond to news of the Berlin Wall being constructed with "LOLOLOL ever heard of a ladder?" Walls do work. Not 100% because nothing is, but they absolutely do. Ask Hungary how it's been working out for them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier
- lobotryas 10y ago
  The Berlin Wall worked because it was backed by fear and guns. The Soviets had no problem arresting and torturing or outright shooting anyone who tried to cross. I think you understand what I'm trying to point out here.
  - xienze 10y ago
    How about Hungary's current wall?
- adekok 10y ago
  The Berlin was was built in a densely populated area, was patrolled regularly, had frequent guard towers, and, was ~100 miles long. Are you really claiming that's a good comparison to a wall 1000 miles long, through desert and unpopulated areas, which won't* be manned continuously along it's length? As for the Hungarian border wall, yes, it has helped. But again, EU population density is a lot higher than the southern US desert. It's not just the wall that stops people, it's the frequent patrols, and repairs to the wall. Given the inability of the US to prevent tunnels between the Mexico / US border, I'm skeptical that a 1000 mile wall will work.
  - xienze 10y ago
    > which won't* be manned continuously along it's length? > It's not just the wall that stops people, it's the frequent patrols, and repairs to the wall. Correct, the wall is but one part of a solution. As far as patrols go, sounds like a fantastic jobs program.
    - adekok 10y ago
      > As far as patrols go, sounds like a fantastic jobs program. i.e. a way to throw money away doing nothing productive. Either the people involved will be highly trained / paid well, and therefore bored. Or, they won't be paid well, and will be susceptible to bribes from people wanting to cross.
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      A good jobs programme results in something which creates more jobs and economic activity over time. This wall wall will hinder economic activity (though generally the kind that is less desirable).
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Land mines, attack dogs, shoot-to-kill and a totalitarian regime make walls more effective. Not that these options are totally unrealistic at the moment. Calling up the national guard would seem a step this way.
tropo 10y ago
$21 Billion for a wall is nothing for a country as large and successful as the USA. It's pretty much pocket change that could get lost under a sofa cushion and not be missed. Our federal budget for 2015 was $3.8 trillion. Spending half a percent on a wall is not a problem. $21 Billion is about 0.1% of our GDP. Note that even Mexico has a GDP of $1.3 trillion (in US dollars), so they can in fact pay for the wall. Even for Mexico, the wall is kind of affordable. Walls are cheaper than highways. Notice that we have numerous highways running across the USA. Dealing with these people is costing us 3 to 6 times as much EVERY YEAR as your figure of $21 Billion. If the wall were flawless, we'd get a payback in just 2 to 4 months. I agree on the detection though. In most areas, the proper physical barrier is probably a fence every half mile for a couple miles, for a total of 5 fences.

by adekok 10y ago

xienze 10y ago

I think it would be interesting if the internet were around 50+ years ago so we could hear everyone respond to news of the Berlin Wall being constructed with "LOLOLOL ever heard of a ladder?" Walls do work. Not 100% because nothing is, but they absolutely do. Ask Hungary how it's been working out for them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier

lobotryas 10y ago
The Berlin Wall worked because it was backed by fear and guns. The Soviets had no problem arresting and torturing or outright shooting anyone who tried to cross. I think you understand what I'm trying to point out here.
- xienze 10y ago
  How about Hungary's current wall?
adekok 10y ago
The Berlin was was built in a densely populated area, was patrolled regularly, had frequent guard towers, and, was ~100 miles long. Are you really claiming that's a good comparison to a wall 1000 miles long, through desert and unpopulated areas, which won't* be manned continuously along it's length? As for the Hungarian border wall, yes, it has helped. But again, EU population density is a lot higher than the southern US desert. It's not just the wall that stops people, it's the frequent patrols, and repairs to the wall. Given the inability of the US to prevent tunnels between the Mexico / US border, I'm skeptical that a 1000 mile wall will work.
- xienze 10y ago
  > which won't* be manned continuously along it's length? > It's not just the wall that stops people, it's the frequent patrols, and repairs to the wall. Correct, the wall is but one part of a solution. As far as patrols go, sounds like a fantastic jobs program.
  - adekok 10y ago
    > As far as patrols go, sounds like a fantastic jobs program. i.e. a way to throw money away doing nothing productive. Either the people involved will be highly trained / paid well, and therefore bored. Or, they won't be paid well, and will be susceptible to bribes from people wanting to cross.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    A good jobs programme results in something which creates more jobs and economic activity over time. This wall wall will hinder economic activity (though generally the kind that is less desirable).
lostlogin 10y ago
Land mines, attack dogs, shoot-to-kill and a totalitarian regime make walls more effective. Not that these options are totally unrealistic at the moment. Calling up the national guard would seem a step this way.

tropo 10y ago

$21 Billion for a wall is nothing for a country as large and successful as the USA. It's pretty much pocket change that could get lost under a sofa cushion and not be missed. Our federal budget for 2015 was $3.8 trillion. Spending half a percent on a wall is not a problem. $21 Billion is about 0.1% of our GDP. Note that even Mexico has a GDP of $1.3 trillion (in US dollars), so they can in fact pay for the wall. Even for Mexico, the wall is kind of affordable. Walls are cheaper than highways. Notice that we have numerous highways running across the USA. Dealing with these people is costing us 3 to 6 times as much EVERY YEAR as your figure of $21 Billion. If the wall were flawless, we'd get a payback in just 2 to 4 months. I agree on the detection though. In most areas, the proper physical barrier is probably a fence every half mile for a couple miles, for a total of 5 fences.