4 ms·

I mean yeah, we really should just leave the border wide open since after all, if you can't stop border shenanigans 100% you shouldn't bother at all. Might as

by xienze 10y ago

I mean yeah, we really should just leave the border wide open since after all, if you can't stop border shenanigans 100% you shouldn't bother at all. Might as well remove all our border patrol agents as well since a non-zero number of people still get through despite their presence.

cooper12 10y ago
Nice false dichotomy you built up there friendo :^). It's either waste taxpayer money on a useless expensive wall or have no border oversight at all huh? (you're also showing how ignorant you are about how much security already goes into our border)
shripadk 10y ago
While at it, might as well remove the door from our homes. It doesn't stop a determined burglar picking the door lock or breaking it open anyways so why bother? /s
aluhut 10y ago
Or, just keep it being the border as it was before?
- shard972 10y ago
  So leave the fence as it is?
  - aluhut 10y ago
    Yes.
    - shard972 10y ago
      But shouldn't we be tearing down the wall instead? And building bridges to make it easier for people to travel?
ajmurmann 10y ago
There already is a tall wall in some parts. According to a border patrol agent the Mexicans just showed up with long ladders. Shortly border patrol had collected so many ladders that they had as giant pile at their station. They soon have up at even collecting the ladders. I don't think giving up on securing the border is the right thing to do either. But doing something super expensive that was tired and didn't work doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe we could instead try to innovate. Maybe small, autonomous drones that patrol the border might be a approach worth trying. I also heard that they are just lacking the resources to process people who were caught in a timely manner and they ended up staying for years. That sounds worthwhile addressing as well before we spent tons of money on a wall. Or we might even stop the war on drugs which would undermine the Mexican cartels, make Mexico saver and reduce push effects for illegal immigrants.
dontyouremember 10y ago
Moot point given that we have a fascist with nukes running the country. Absolute security of planet earth is pretty low right now.
adekok 10y ago
$21 Billion for a wall is a lot. Penn & Teller did a show on Immigration. Tthey got a bunch of Mexicans to build a wall. And yes, after it was built, they asked the workers to try to get across it. The wall slowed them down by about 2 minutes. Which isn't really worth it. Any wall built along the border will likely be similar in efficacy. And even if the wall is perfect, tunnelling under it won't be a problem. TBH, You'd probably be better off increasing detection along the border. Leave it open, but make sure you catch everyone $21 billion will buy a lot of equipment that can be hidden, and a lot of border patrols.
- xienze 10y ago
  I think it would be interesting if the internet were around 50+ years ago so we could hear everyone respond to news of the Berlin Wall being constructed with "LOLOLOL ever heard of a ladder?" Walls do work. Not 100% because nothing is, but they absolutely do. Ask Hungary how it's been working out for them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier
  - lobotryas 10y ago
    The Berlin Wall worked because it was backed by fear and guns. The Soviets had no problem arresting and torturing or outright shooting anyone who tried to cross. I think you understand what I'm trying to point out here.
    - xienze 10y ago
      How about Hungary's current wall?
  - adekok 10y ago
    The Berlin was was built in a densely populated area, was patrolled regularly, had frequent guard towers, and, was ~100 miles long. Are you really claiming that's a good comparison to a wall 1000 miles long, through desert and unpopulated areas, which won't* be manned continuously along it's length? As for the Hungarian border wall, yes, it has helped. But again, EU population density is a lot higher than the southern US desert. It's not just the wall that stops people, it's the frequent patrols, and repairs to the wall. Given the inability of the US to prevent tunnels between the Mexico / US border, I'm skeptical that a 1000 mile wall will work.
Lagged2Death 10y ago
>...we really should just leave the border wide open... It isn't, hasn't been, won't be, and everyone perfectly well knows that. In 2016 the US spent about $0.75 on CBP for every $1.00 we spent on NASA. Illegal immigration across the border reached new long-term lows, and so did the number of immigrants living in the country illegally. There is no border crisis. Falsely promoting a crisis is unpatriotic, it undermines the culture and institutions that we collectively refer to as "the country." It's a betrayal, a dereliction of duty.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by xienze 10y ago

cooper12 10y ago

Nice false dichotomy you built up there friendo :^). It's either waste taxpayer money on a useless expensive wall or have no border oversight at all huh? (you're also showing how ignorant you are about how much security already goes into our border)

shripadk 10y ago

While at it, might as well remove the door from our homes. It doesn't stop a determined burglar picking the door lock or breaking it open anyways so why bother? /s

aluhut 10y ago

Or, just keep it being the border as it was before?

shard972 10y ago
So leave the fence as it is?
- aluhut 10y ago
  Yes.
  - shard972 10y ago
    But shouldn't we be tearing down the wall instead? And building bridges to make it easier for people to travel?

ajmurmann 10y ago

There already is a tall wall in some parts. According to a border patrol agent the Mexicans just showed up with long ladders. Shortly border patrol had collected so many ladders that they had as giant pile at their station. They soon have up at even collecting the ladders. I don't think giving up on securing the border is the right thing to do either. But doing something super expensive that was tired and didn't work doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe we could instead try to innovate. Maybe small, autonomous drones that patrol the border might be a approach worth trying. I also heard that they are just lacking the resources to process people who were caught in a timely manner and they ended up staying for years. That sounds worthwhile addressing as well before we spent tons of money on a wall. Or we might even stop the war on drugs which would undermine the Mexican cartels, make Mexico saver and reduce push effects for illegal immigrants.

dontyouremember 10y ago

Moot point given that we have a fascist with nukes running the country. Absolute security of planet earth is pretty low right now.

adekok 10y ago

$21 Billion for a wall is a lot. Penn & Teller did a show on Immigration. Tthey got a bunch of Mexicans to build a wall. And yes, after it was built, they asked the workers to try to get across it. The wall slowed them down by about 2 minutes. Which isn't really worth it. Any wall built along the border will likely be similar in efficacy. And even if the wall is perfect, tunnelling under it won't be a problem. TBH, You'd probably be better off increasing detection along the border. Leave it open, but make sure you catch everyone $21 billion will buy a lot of equipment that can be hidden, and a lot of border patrols.

xienze 10y ago
I think it would be interesting if the internet were around 50+ years ago so we could hear everyone respond to news of the Berlin Wall being constructed with "LOLOLOL ever heard of a ladder?" Walls do work. Not 100% because nothing is, but they absolutely do. Ask Hungary how it's been working out for them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier
- lobotryas 10y ago
  The Berlin Wall worked because it was backed by fear and guns. The Soviets had no problem arresting and torturing or outright shooting anyone who tried to cross. I think you understand what I'm trying to point out here.
  - xienze 10y ago
    How about Hungary's current wall?
- adekok 10y ago
  The Berlin was was built in a densely populated area, was patrolled regularly, had frequent guard towers, and, was ~100 miles long. Are you really claiming that's a good comparison to a wall 1000 miles long, through desert and unpopulated areas, which won't* be manned continuously along it's length? As for the Hungarian border wall, yes, it has helped. But again, EU population density is a lot higher than the southern US desert. It's not just the wall that stops people, it's the frequent patrols, and repairs to the wall. Given the inability of the US to prevent tunnels between the Mexico / US border, I'm skeptical that a 1000 mile wall will work.

Lagged2Death 10y ago

>...we really should just leave the border wide open... It isn't, hasn't been, won't be, and everyone perfectly well knows that. In 2016 the US spent about $0.75 on CBP for every $1.00 we spent on NASA. Illegal immigration across the border reached new long-term lows, and so did the number of immigrants living in the country illegally. There is no border crisis. Falsely promoting a crisis is unpatriotic, it undermines the culture and institutions that we collectively refer to as "the country." It's a betrayal, a dereliction of duty.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]